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Post by peerlessperil on Sept 22, 2017 16:19:08 GMT
I thought they were prohibited from doing so? Chapter and verse? According to post below Kufflink (who I shall visit asap) manage it in some form. I have edited to add the legal names to clarify that the risk is retained by Kuflink Bridging, whilst the platform is operated by kuflink Ltd, a separate company. The platform operator does not retain exposure.
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jj
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Post by jj on Sept 22, 2017 18:00:34 GMT
The only thing worth putting up as colaterial in the fishing industry are the fishing licenses. They are more valuable than gold dust. You can hardly buy them.
As a sign of good faith this should be used. Will they ----I wouldn't hold my breath.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Sept 22, 2017 18:01:24 GMT
shimself not to hand, no. But it has been discussed in a number of threads over the last couple of years and I believe that at least one difficulty was the FCA not wanting platforms to have skin in the game (vis Lendy's dropping of INPL and MT's no longer pre-funding off their own balance sheet). Now I accept that the aim here was to get loans off the ground but iirc the same problems exist with platforms co-investing. Well if the FCA really forbid it, I absolutely despair. Oh skin in game, throws hands up in horror, that would never do. Just like W T F is wrong with them?
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 22, 2017 18:36:41 GMT
The only thing worth putting up as colaterial in the fishing industry are the fishing licenses. They are more valuable than gold dust. You can hardly buy them. As a sign of good faith this should be used. Will they ----I wouldn't hold my breath. Thought they were, least for the AC loan thought saw that
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jj
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Post by jj on Sept 22, 2017 18:51:51 GMT
The only thing worth putting up as colaterial in the fishing industry are the fishing licenses. They are more valuable than gold dust. You can hardly buy them. As a sign of good faith this should be used. Will they ----I wouldn't hold my breath. Thought they were, least for the AC loan thought saw that The docs does say that don't they. I can't work out the value of them. The doc. has been laid out in a way its difficult to decipher. It is common to lease and rent licenses now.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 22, 2017 19:55:42 GMT
Thought they were, least for the AC loan thought saw that The docs does say that don't they. I can't work out the value of them. The doc. has been laid out in a way its difficult to decipher. It is common to lease and rent licenses now. Think I recall AC loan separated out the licence from the boat and gave a value, was it same value as boat I think?
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Post by peerlessperil on Sept 22, 2017 20:10:58 GMT
shimself not to hand, no. But it has been discussed in a number of threads over the last couple of years and I believe that at least one difficulty was the FCA not wanting platforms to have skin in the game (vis Lendy's dropping of INPL and MT's no longer pre-funding off their own balance sheet). Now I accept that the aim here was to get loans off the ground but iirc the same problems exist with platforms co-investing. Well if the FCA really forbid it, I absolutely despair. Oh skin in game, throws hands up in horror, that would never do. Just like W T F is wrong with them? I shall make myself unpopular by defending the FCA on this occasion. Platforms are matchmakers between lender and borrower, not principals to the trade (and the capital regime they operate under reflects this). They are also trading exchanges if they have secondary markets. You don't want the platform failing just because one of the loans on the platform defaults and they were sitting on a chunk of it. Can you imagine the furore if it was discovered that the LSE was punting its balance sheet on equities?!
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Sept 22, 2017 20:40:18 GMT
Well if the FCA really forbid it, I absolutely despair. Oh skin in game, throws hands up in horror, that would never do. Just like W T F is wrong with them? I shall make myself unpopular by defending the FCA on this occasion. Platforms are matchmakers between lender and borrower, not principals to the trade (and the capital regime they operate under reflects this). They are also trading exchanges if they have secondary markets. You don't want the platform failing just because one of the loans on the platform defaults and they were sitting on a chunk of it. Can you imagine the furore if it was discovered that the LSE was punting its balance sheet on equities?! I'm suggesting a platform should invest - oh let's say sufficient so that if the loan fails they lose money. If the loan fails towards the end of term (if it's amortising) then they lose not a lot, if it fails at the beginning they lose erm, what do you think, up to 5% of the principal? But then a platform will be introducing a loan say every week, so each disastrous failure costs them 2% of turnover. If half their loans failed they would obviously be in severe trouble, as they should be - we don't want them to keep trading if they keep offering bad loans. If a few of their loans failed, well, same as us, that's the cost of doing business . If rather too many of their loans failed then, exactly what we want, they have to take a very hard look at their criteria and process, because if not they will be out of a job. The LSE is far more agnostic (and dispassiona te) about what's on the market, all they want is for people to keep buying and selling. The complete loss of liquidity if they failed would be an absolute disaster for the whole economy (I suppose?). As it is if a platform fails there is an rundown operator already lined up, and I suspect investors would come out better from a rundown rather than endless chasing jam tomorrow. In any case what we are told is that platforms have to offer good loans or else bad reputation would shut them down. I'd rather something more definite which really focuses top management attention where WE need it to be, ie loan quality (not how to PR their way out of something which has really hurt us lenders)
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 22, 2017 20:40:55 GMT
The docs does say that don't they. I can't work out the value of them. The doc. has been laid out in a way its difficult to decipher. It is common to lease and rent licenses now. Think I recall AC loan separated out the licence from the boat and gave a value, was it same value as boat I think? 20% more actually but that is a non-quota licence and worth considerable more than normal quotas. The two known licences are both subject to charges and the AC one has assignment of income pledged in the event of a default.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 23, 2017 7:48:12 GMT
'an unseemly rush' to buy up Quota an interesting article published by Greenpeace, small Vessels and their owners bought out to be replaced by fewer, state of the art larger Fishing Vessels, could this be the reason why our Borrower has been knocking on the door of more than one of our p2p Platforms to secure the funds they need to enable them to buy those precious licenses? IMO AC have cannily picked the best security 'cherries' for their lenders but offer a lender rate signicantly less than that being offered by Ablrate. Link to the article: unearthed.greenpeace.org/2016/05/15/investigation-big-fish-quota-barons-squeeze-out-small-scale-fishermen/And an image of a fairly recent addition to the United Kingdom's fishing fleet, this is a large and very expensive Vessel one which would need access to a lot of Quota to make it pay. Livery references to home Port and Vessel name painted out to meet with forum rules. Like a lot of areas, becoming more industrialised, requires larger and more expensive kit, pushes out the smaller self employed for larger organisations-result of consumers wanting cheaper goods-cant stop progress
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Sept 23, 2017 10:05:07 GMT
And an image of a fairly recent addition to the United Kingdom's fishing fleet, this is a large and very expensive Vessel one which would need access to a lot of Quota to make it pay. Livery references to home Port and Vessel name painted out to meet with forum rules.I'm grateful to my honourable friend for supplying this picture of a pristine new fishing trawler. As far as I can ascertain, the vessel is not the subject of this or any loan discussed here, or connected to the borrower, so why would the name and port be painted out? What rules of this house require that? Maybe the full glory of this sleek trawler could be reinstated. I'd be awfully grateful.
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duck
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Post by duck on Sept 23, 2017 10:23:09 GMT
Tr.w... M. T...... F...
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blender
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Post by blender on Sept 23, 2017 11:10:46 GMT
And an image of a fairly recent addition to the United Kingdom's fishing fleet, this is a large and very expensive Vessel one which would need access to a lot of Quota to make it pay. Livery references to home Port and Vessel name painted out to meet with forum rules.I'm grateful to my honourable friend for supplying this picture of a pristine new fishing trawler. As far as I can ascertain, the vessel is not the subject of this or any loan discussed here, or connected to the borrower, so why would the name and port be painted out? What rules of this house require that? Maybe the full glory of this sleek trawler could be reinstated. I'd be awfully grateful. Presumably wishing to avoid identifying the borrower by starting a process through which forumites will inevitably post a long sequence of named trawler images which do not belong to the borrower. A process of elimination leads to identification.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Sept 23, 2017 14:40:29 GMT
I'm going to try and look at things from both a local and personal perspective, I call North East Scotland my home patch, I am familiar with both Fr*****u**h & P****h**d in fact I have lived in the former and have spent a great deal of time in the latter. The fishing industry is struggling owing to quota's and days at sea limitations, some Vessel owners are finding themselves running out of one or the other Or worse still both. Quota's and days then Boats can also get weathered in Port. I would suggest that the established fishing families are either being forced to retire vessels and sell on their quota's Or buy vessels to gain quota's which can lead to boats being scrapped. The industry needs to streamline to survive, there is an urgency about it which may be considered unseemly if it weren't so necessary. On a personal note I love good quality Fish & Chip Suppers as we call them here. This year for the first time in my adult life my favourite Chippy could not buy the Haddock it needed to meet customer demand and we we offered Cod instead. I asked the owner why this had happened and her reply was simple the vessels that supply her had run out of days at sea and at the same time had also run out of quota, these vessels upon which her Business depended were tide up in port. Boats cost a considerable sum of money to keep, port time costs money, boats therefor need to work. Both these historically important fishing ports are really struggling economically and it is very sad for me to witness this transformation. At one time men shed from the fishing fleet would find work offshore in oil and gas but this industry too has entered a period of decline not just because oil prices but because the existing fields are rapidly approaching end of life and any available reserves have become to expensive to develop. A locals view I hope it helps. Just picking up on this comment and the discussion above about the direction the industry is heading with the consolidation of quotas into new mega trawlers. This gives me further cause for concern about the value of the security offered on this loan. Even if the existing smaller boats within the £1.3M security are unencumbered by charges, how can we be sure that they won't be the ones potentially being scrapped over the next few years? I know nothing about the price of fish, or fishing boats for that matter, but surely a boat without the necessary quotas/licences is virtually useless and worth a lot less?
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jj
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Post by jj on Sept 23, 2017 15:03:25 GMT
This is a picture of Fraserburgh harbour many moons ago. Everybody had a fishing related job. All my granddads, dad & uncles worked in the fishing industry. Now there are just a handful of boats left. Sad or progress, you have to make up your own mind up? Keep in mind that more than half the fish in UK waters are caught by foreign vessels.
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