macq
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Post by macq on Sept 19, 2017 15:50:25 GMT
could they be added to the admin section or on here as well?- easier then reading the docs again Will do both thank you
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Sept 19, 2017 15:51:43 GMT
AC must feel pretty naked just now. 8% vs 14% - same risk, same borrower. That why I don't invest much with AC anymore.
If anyone wants to throw your money away at this loan can you throw some this way as well ? House of cards.
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Post by investorman on Sept 19, 2017 16:18:07 GMT
I may be being naive (im new to P2P), but even taking borrower reservations and other loans into account, is there not an absolute shedload of security here? You have the asset that will be purchased with this loan, the charge on the existing assets that have been transferred to the company, the assets of the director, and the cross guarantees. Also the previous oil company that was 'thrown overboard' seemed to only be in the hole for £13k as far as I can see. Feel free to tell me im an idiot
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Sept 19, 2017 16:23:22 GMT
I may be being naive (im new to P2P), but even taking borrower reservations and other loans into account, is there not an absolute shedload of security here? You have the asset that will be purchased with this loan, the charge on the existing assets that have been transferred to the company, the assets of the director, and the cross guarantees. Also the previous oil company that was 'thrown overboard' seemed to only be in the hole for £13k as far as I can see. Feel free to tell me im an idiot Except that it isn't completely clear to what extent some of the assets offered as security are encumbered (for example, their personal house my have no mortgage, or be 90% mortgaged). It would appear that PG's have been given on other loans (which ranks first?), and if the company buys an asset with the matching bank finance mentioned, then the bank might take a 1st charge over the asset.
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Post by investorman on Sept 19, 2017 16:41:53 GMT
I may be being naive (im new to P2P), but even taking borrower reservations and other loans into account, is there not an absolute shedload of security here? You have the asset that will be purchased with this loan, the charge on the existing assets that have been transferred to the company, the assets of the director, and the cross guarantees. Also the previous oil company that was 'thrown overboard' seemed to only be in the hole for £13k as far as I can see. Feel free to tell me im an idiot Except that it isn't completely clear to what extent some of the assets offered as security are encumbered (for example, their personal house my have no mortgage, or be 90% mortgaged). It would appear that PG's have been given on other loans (which ranks first?), and if the company buys an asset with the matching bank finance mentioned, then the bank might take a 1st charge over the asset. Thanks, i agree with everything you have said. I was just thinking that we put up half a mil, so does the bank to buy the asset. Borrower defaults, bank gets back their half mil from sale of the asset, we pick up whats left, lets say its depreciated by 20%, we still get £300k back. We then have £200k left to find, there is £1.3m of other assets, plus a £200k house (granted still be a mortgage) plus other guarantees, we only need 13% of those assets to be there to get our capital back? Plus that worst case if they default on payment 1, its amortising so the liability will reduce each month?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 19, 2017 16:42:32 GMT
AC must feel pretty naked just now. 8% vs 14% - same risk, same borrower. That why I don't invest much with AC anymore. If anyone wants to throw your money away at this loan can you throw some this way as well ? House of cards. AC loan looks considerable less risky. Clear fixed charge on a physical asset. Far less chance of cross contamination from subsiduaries going pear shaped.
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 19, 2017 16:43:07 GMT
I may be being naive (im new to P2P), but even taking borrower reservations and other loans into account, is there not an absolute shedload of security here? You have the asset that will be purchased with this loan, the charge on the existing assets that have been transferred to the company, the assets of the director, and the cross guarantees. Also the previous oil company that was 'thrown overboard' seemed to only be in the hole for £13k as far as I can see. Feel free to tell me im an idiot think people want a bit more info on that security(no good having a shed load if there's no lock on the door) but that's not to say its not ok
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Sept 19, 2017 16:43:21 GMT
I read it any bank finance, whilst potentially matching our loan amount, would be used for separately charged assets (ie not joint purchases with our acquisitions).
ie 1.3M boaty assets (pending confirmation of AC charge) + 0.55M new assets (funded separately from any bank loans).
How much is the AC boat valued at?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Sept 19, 2017 16:50:27 GMT
Can't beat ABLrate for diversification. After reading the loan proposal, I've put my usual chunk in. There is a lot of security, and after ABLrates experience with a nefarious fraudster I'm sure they will be more particular. Amortising loans always give me a (possibly misplaced) additional level of comfort. Also, I love all things fish
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 19, 2017 16:57:01 GMT
I read it any bank finance, whilst potentially matching our loan amount, would be used for separately charged assets (ie not joint purchases with our acquisitions). ie 1.3M boaty assets (pending confirmation of AC charge) + 0.55M new assets (funded separately from any bank loans). How much is the AC boat valued at? Its not just the AC boat, there are unsatisfied charges over most of the boats and subsiduaries (mostly very old but not all) so value of the debenture unclear.
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jj
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Post by jj on Sept 19, 2017 17:05:51 GMT
AC must feel pretty naked just now. 8% vs 14% - same risk, same borrower. That why I don't invest much with AC anymore. If anyone wants to throw your money away at this loan can you throw some this way as well ? House of cards. AC loan looks considerable less risky. Clear fixed charge on a physical asset. Far less chance of cross contamination from subsiduaries going pear shaped. Well the physical asset valuation bit I would question. I remember a loan came up once and it when something like this. The borrower requires the loan to purchase a business property valued at £350,000 but managed to knock the seller down to £300,000. Therefore he can get £245,000 which is 70% LTV! Eh no that make a LTV of 81%. Thats not how it works. Also LTV for a business means nothing (unlike a house). Selling a business is extremely hard to do. Who wants a business ? Not alot of people, unlike a house. The successful repayment of a loan is totally reliant on the business itself not the LTV.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 19, 2017 17:23:40 GMT
I read it any bank finance, whilst potentially matching our loan amount, would be used for separately charged assets (ie not joint purchases with our acquisitions). ie 1.3M boaty assets (pending confirmation of AC charge) + 0.55M new assets (funded separately from any bank loans). How much is the AC boat valued at? If bank finance is used to assist with the purchase of new additional assets, the bank may ask to take a Charge over that particular asset and therefore remove it from the asset base available to Ablrate lenders. An acquisition portfolio may look like either of the two examples or a blend thereof: Cash & Bank Finance: Boat A - Under 10m scalloper - cost £120,000 (50% bank funding) £60,000 investment - annual yield £100,000 Sounds like joint finance and in that case, AB debenture not cover those assets (unclear why remaining equity not covered under debenture)
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Post by peerlessperil on Sept 19, 2017 19:01:40 GMT
I have now sent some publicly available documentation to ablrate via private message which they are reviewing.
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Post by df on Sept 19, 2017 20:03:39 GMT
Can't beat ABLrate for diversification. After reading the loan proposal, I've put my usual chunk in. There is a lot of security, and after ABLrates experience with a nefarious fraudster I'm sure they will be more particular. Amortising loans always give me a (possibly misplaced) additional level of comfort. Also, I love all things fish I like amortising loans. Somewhat reduced risk and more monthly returns for reinvestment. I didn't think twice investing a modest amount in it.
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ben
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Post by ben on Sept 19, 2017 20:18:41 GMT
Can't beat ABLrate for diversification. After reading the loan proposal, I've put my usual chunk in. There is a lot of security, and after ABLrates experience with a nefarious fraudster I'm sure they will be more particular. Amortising loans always give me a (possibly misplaced) additional level of comfort. Also, I love all things fish I like amortising loans. Somewhat reduced risk and more monthly returns for reinvestment. I didn't think twice investing a modest amount in it. I like amortising loans to the best, as it gives the borrower an incentive not to default longer the loan goes on, however no point if the security is not there and it is going to go into default in the first few months.
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