ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,955
Likes: 11,182
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 4, 2017 10:04:36 GMT
13.6 Alllows Coll to vary loan terms at their discretion if borrower circumstances change and bind lenders to them. Terms includes all statements made on website so pop up on SM listing would count as terms.
However, Coll are in much the same position as Lendy. Terms designed for pawn lending are unsuitable for property & development loans and need to be updated. All these issues where present on Lendy and remain contentious & debateable still. Hopefully Col will sort it faster.
PS did we vote on recovery of car loans as terms require that too?
|
|
stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,442
Likes: 945
|
Post by stub8535 on Nov 4, 2017 10:13:59 GMT
13.6 Alllows Coll to vary loan terms at their discretion if borrower circumstances change and bind lenders to them. Terms includes all statements made on website so pop up on SM listing would count as terms. However, Coll are in much the same position as Lendy. Terms designed for pawn lending are unsuitable for property & development loans and need to be updated. All these issues where present on Lendy and remain contentious & debateable still. Hopefully Col will sort it faster. PS did we vote on recovery of car loans as terms require that too? Ilmoro. Were the car loans still within term when the issues arise? The outstanding one still are within their respective end dates. I have not been keeping too close an eye on them so I may have missed something.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,955
Likes: 11,182
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 4, 2017 11:26:51 GMT
13.6 Alllows Coll to vary loan terms at their discretion if borrower circumstances change and bind lenders to them. Terms includes all statements made on website so pop up on SM listing would count as terms. However, Coll are in much the same position as Lendy. Terms designed for pawn lending are unsuitable for property & development loans and need to be updated. All these issues where present on Lendy and remain contentious & debateable still. Hopefully Col will sort it faster. PS did we vote on recovery of car loans as terms require that too? Ilmoro. Were the car loans still within term when the issues arise? The outstanding one still are within their respective end dates. I have not been keeping too close an eye on them so I may have missed something. Good point. Yes. I guess it comes down to what is considered a default event. The borrowing entity/other party to the agreement going into liquidation and thus being unable to redeem the loan seems like a default event but as interest was retained and Coll owned the cars it is more opaque. I was merely an observation on where the terms and reality have seemed to have diverged as the platform evolves. Maybe an erroneous one in this instance.
|
|
bfish
Member of DD Central
Posts: 106
Likes: 131
|
Post by bfish on Nov 4, 2017 12:51:30 GMT
Try as I might I can find no mention in COL's Terms or FAQ warning lenders who sell on the SM that their interest payments will be docked. Can anyone point me in the right direction, please ? When you put a loan part up for sale it reiterates what you are selling and how much and also says "Please note, once you confirm you are selling your loan part all interest on this part will stop. Once your loan parts have been purchased we will credit the balance to your account, however any available funding on the loan will take precedence over your selling loan parts until sold. Any unpaid interest accrued prior to sale will be credited at the end of the month as usual." You have to click the blue "sell loan part" button to implement it and put the loan part up for sale. Seems pretty clear to me Careless of me, I know, 'star dust' - but the print is a little small . . . ! Fortunately I have lost very little !!
|
|
stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
Posts: 1,442
Likes: 945
|
Post by stub8535 on Nov 4, 2017 13:29:44 GMT
Ilmoro. Were the car loans still within term when the issues arise? The outstanding one still are within their respective end dates. I have not been keeping too close an eye on them so I may have missed something. Good point. Yes. I guess it comes down to what is considered a default event. The borrowing entity/other party to the agreement going into liquidation and thus being unable to redeem the loan seems like a default event but as interest was retained and Coll owned the cars it is more opaque. I was merely an observation on where the terms and reality have seemed to have diverged as the platform evolves. Maybe an erroneous one in this instance. Phew! Thought I had missed something. Agree that the borrower being in trouble would normally be cause for concern. Good that at least the none property loans are tightly controlled by contracts that are fit for the specific purpose. When Polonius and I visited Collateral we were impressed by the contractual side of things. This was as the first of the property loans had started on the platform. Thanks for coming back quickly Ilmorro. S
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,671
Likes: 2,996
|
Post by IFISAcava on Nov 4, 2017 14:04:10 GMT
I presume this change would apply to parts already patiently queued for sale at the time a loan enters the extended period, as well as parts added to the queue thereafter? Frankly, I would much prefer that you stop confiscating lenders’ interest altogether (which a platform should have no right to do whilst it is the lender’s capital that is at risk). If you feel there needs to be some cost for selling to prevent long SM queues forming then apply a standard selling charge (eg. 0.1% - 0.25%) but waive this for extended loans. Put another way, why should it cost nothing to sell part of a small, popular loan but potentially 1%/2%/3% to sell part of a large, unpopular loan. This simply discourages investment in the large loans that you most want our help to fill. One effect of a blanket SM charge could be investors invest less at go live to avoid future charges recycling, the opposite effect Coll need for larger develpment loans (where CB at drawdown gets the loans filled and positively encourages flipping). I typically avoid platforms with SM charges ie LLI, PL and am prepared to run the risk of some cash drag if my financial circumstances change and I no longer wish to hold a loan to term. Tricky balance. Edit - as the perfect platform doesn't exist, I actually appreciate the differences from dumping on MT to get a paid Q position, dumping on Ly out of desperation, taking a market price on abl or timing nuances on Coll vs Q recycling, keeps us on our toes (that said the regular Chelsea dumps are becoming rather tedious 😉 ). Trouble is those are the platforms that have the ISA which is a much bigger advantage than avoiding 0.25% or 0.5% SM fees. Once Coll (and MT etc) release an ISA there would I imagine be pressure on the others to reduce SM charges. Also, I think if you see the Ly and Coll loss of interest as an SM charge (which it is), then only MT and ABL are really fee-free.
|
|
oik
Member of DD Central
Posts: 254
Likes: 349
|
Post by oik on Nov 5, 2017 11:48:02 GMT
Confiscating interest while lenders try to sell their loans is both unfair and daft. The platform has to make its money in one way or another but doing it in a way that most of its lenders seem to agree is unjustified will erode trust and so cost the platform in the longer term.
There will always be problems with it, including if there are errors in the loan descriptions. Even before the extension of the "Chelsea" loan, any lender who only later learned that the property had been falsely described as being in Chelsea and is really in the less expensive neighbouring London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, would have reason to be doubly agrieved if they'd then been penalised for exiting.
Let's hope Collateral will get this policy right.
(Disclosure I have a substantial holding in the "Chelsea" (Fulham) loan which I was more than happy to have extended - but would have preferred to have been asked.)
|
|
|
Post by Collateral Rep on Nov 8, 2017 16:00:28 GMT
Aftenoon,
We have updated the system to pay interest on loan parts being sold that are in an extended period of a loan.
Many thanks,
Gordon
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 1, 2017 10:11:31 GMT
A belated thank you for management agreeing to this, Gordon. It will influence my decisions whether (or not) to invest in your continued flow of Mr B*dd**'s loans in which, should work not start on development, I will not expect to be "punished" for wanting (and waiting) to sell out of loans extended beyond the original term. Please specify this proviso on the website where selling "rules" are given. Let us all hope that construction on some of these does start on these sites in January as "advised". (We need to pray for a relatively snow/ice free first quarter 2018!)
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 12, 2018 10:50:57 GMT
Has anyone checked yet whether Col are actually applying the principle that where a loan extension has been granted, our loan parts on the SM are not subject to loss of interest?
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,874
Likes: 7,919
|
Post by SteveT on Feb 12, 2018 10:53:45 GMT
Has anyone checked yet whether Col are actually applying the principle that where a loan extension has been granted, our loan parts on the SM are not subject to loss of interest? Yes, I received full interest last month on some extended loan-parts that were still "Selling" at the end of January
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 12, 2018 10:59:28 GMT
Thanks, Steve
|
|
oik
Member of DD Central
Posts: 254
Likes: 349
|
Post by oik on Feb 12, 2018 11:21:31 GMT
Has anyone checked yet whether Col are actually applying the principle that where a loan extension has been granted, our loan parts on the SM are not subject to loss of interest? But note that there are now a number of loans that are up to 2 months beyond term that Collateral don't regard as being either "extended" or in default. As such Collateral will still confiscate all ongoing interest due on those loans if a lender attempts to sell.
|
|
star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Feb 12, 2018 11:22:37 GMT
I did query the pop-up sales text with them at the beginning of the month as the spot the difference text was that on ones not rolled over it says "Please note, once you confirm you are selling your loan part all interest on this part will stop." Whereas for extended property loans it says "Please note, once you confirm you are selling your loan part all interest on this part will continue." which seemed a rather counter intuitive way of putting things. They confirmed interest would continue to accrue and advised me that they would get the message changed, but as I don't have any extended loan parts left not yet listed for sale, I can't test anything to see whether it's been amended.
|
|
oik
Member of DD Central
Posts: 254
Likes: 349
|
Post by oik on Feb 12, 2018 11:37:39 GMT
Now says:
"You are about to sell a £**** loan part of .....
As this loan has been extended you will continue to receive interest whilst it is for sale on the Secondary Market.
Once your loan parts have been purchased we will credit the balance to your account, however any available funding on the loan will take precedence over your selling loan parts until sold.
Any unpaid interest accrued prior to sale will be credited at the end of the month as usual."
(Only applies if borrower has formally extended the loan and paid interest.)
|
|