aj
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Post by aj on Dec 12, 2017 14:05:06 GMT
I'm interested to know if what percentage of you would rule out certain investments for ethical reasons?
For example; personally I wouldn't touch a fracking firm, even if I thought the financials were a great opportunity. Conversely I like property development as I think the housing shortage is currently a harmful force on society.
What sort of things would others rule out?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 12, 2017 14:18:55 GMT
Four things to consider when investing ethically. To be honest, Responsible Capitalism requires a fundamental integration of the needs of the wider community, care for the communities in which the business operates, environmental initiatives and support for the arts and culture, with the business’s goals and processes. Would you consider Microsoft is not an ethical corporation while Mr. Bill Gates is committed to the Giving Pledge and giving 99% of his wealth during his lifetime or at the time of his death.
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Dec 12, 2017 14:26:10 GMT
Of course we now need houses to live in, but property development continually threatens & destroys more and more green belt land, especially development for new homes.
Civilization is unsustainable.
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aj
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Post by aj on Dec 13, 2017 7:38:41 GMT
Four things to consider when investing ethically. To be honest, Responsible Capitalism requires a fundamental integration of the needs of the wider community, care for the communities in which the business operates, environmental initiatives and support for the arts and culture, with the business’s goals and processes. Would you consider Microsoft is not an ethical corporation while Mr. Bill Gates is committed to the Giving Pledge and giving 99% of his wealth during his lifetime or at the time of his death. Are there any companies out there that you feel actually meet those goals? IMHO, there's no black and white in this world. Microsoft is grey enough that I wouldn't avoid it outright.
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aj
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Post by aj on Dec 13, 2017 8:03:23 GMT
Of course we now need houses to live in, but property development continually threatens & destroys more and more green belt land, especially development for new homes. Civilization is unsustainable. I haven't got any property money in greenfield sites; there's plenty of redevelopment, brownfield and bridging loans available. I'd agree that civilisation is unsustainable, but we don't need to be so self destructive. I'd even go as far as arguing that Chinas one child policy was a good idea in principle.
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Dec 14, 2017 8:07:25 GMT
My only definite "no" has always been investing in tobacco products.
But if the taxes are high enough and smokers die early and cheaply enough, I suppose you could argue it is of value to the country at large ....
More seriously, I would not readily invest in:
Fertility clinics (population is unsustainably high already)
Cigarette products (but e-cigs are probably OK and likely causing less harm)
Anything furthering the aims of organised (especially monotheistic) religion (with the exception of FSM)
Internet spam/tracking/spamvertising/ mass data aggregation companies.
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Dec 14, 2017 15:11:45 GMT
But if the taxes are high enough and smokers die early and cheaply enough, I suppose you could argue it is of value to the country at large .... Undoubtably HRH (PP) would agree with you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 15:35:41 GMT
Tobacco, never Betting, twice, gave profits made to good causes Arms, not since reaching adulthood Anything Russian, only with a very long spoon Anything Iranian, only with a long spoon
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Dec 14, 2017 15:44:03 GMT
And betting - only if I can find a bargepole at least a lightyear in length ...
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rick24
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Post by rick24 on Dec 14, 2017 16:13:30 GMT
Areas I would want to avoid: companies involved in experimentation on human embryos, manufacture of abortifacients and contraceptives, tobacco, armaments (yes weapons are necessary for legitimate defence but exports to undesirable regimes is a no-no), gambling, pornography. These things don't arise much in P2P.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Dec 14, 2017 16:47:37 GMT
Tobacco, never Betting, twice, gave profits made to good causes Arms, not since reaching adulthood Anything Russian, only with a very long spoon Anything Iranian, only with a long spoon I get the feeling that you like a punt bobo, and to possibly prove some Russian investments are worthy, have a gander at Raven Russia Prefs. A mighty fine holding which pays handsomely and has kept me in good stead for years, I always buy more when the price dips sufficiently.. Yours, Warren Souros George Buffett.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 17:08:43 GMT
Hi Oz, thanks for the idea but I will decline, why? When I worked I had to deal with a whole slew of Russians, they always tried to "welsh" (we actually called it "russian") on every deal. I employed a spook just to control them and we put contracts in place so we always had the machine and the cash. Lovely people, wouldn't trust them to pay me. Did the same with the Iranian National Guard on a few deals, always gentlemen, never met them, didn't like the idea. Still glad it works for you. Punting, only the Cherwell baby.
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Dec 14, 2017 19:36:06 GMT
I wonder if anyone else thinks unethical investment also includes investing in a p2p loan that you think will fail but since it has some cashback you invest in it then relist on the SM for someone else to take the eventual capital loss?
Specifically I'm thinking of some Lendy loans and a fairly recent one on MT that had quite a lot of negative sentiment expressed at the start and has recently run into some trouble. If the loan failed to fill without your capital the borrower would have to look elsewhere or would have to take the hit themselves, and the platform would be forced to list only viable loans. With your capital the loan draws down and if you managed to sell on the SM some other perhaps niave retail investor with savings they can't really afford to lose is on the hook for the loss, and the platform knows they can list whatever dodgy loans they think they can get away with until the p2p bubble bursts and everyone loses.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Dec 14, 2017 19:39:10 GMT
No probs bobo. FYI Raven don't deal "with Russians" per se, Anton Bilton is Deputy Chairman (I have a feeling you know who he is ) and they're based in Guernsey. Raven have massive warehouses in Russia and only deal with Blue Chip companies, etc, etc, but I understand and appreciate that if you have been burned before you like to escape the branding iron!
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Jan 25, 2018 15:46:29 GMT
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