sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Dec 16, 2017 7:57:30 GMT
Assuming it's the borrowers refinancing and not RS they are of course entitled to do it. What is missing is some penalty for early redemption going to the the lender. If for some reason this can't be charged directly to the borrower (I read somewhere that certain loans can't charge for early redemption) it should come from the extra profit made by RS from the second loan. Indeed, if the borrowers are refinancing they are of course entitled to shop around and switch to a lower rate. However dorset's experience ("I had 18 separate loans made in September all at 6%+ which were all paid back last week") suggests that it is RS who is refinancing and so it would be fair, as you suggest, to share some of the gains with the lender who has been prematurely paid off. Have RS admitted or have other users been able to establish with some certainty that RS, in addition to some borrowers, also do such refinancing and prematurely pay off lenders on the 1 year and 5 year markets?
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Dec 16, 2017 9:46:01 GMT
When Kev was a RS employee, he said they didn't do this as and my own loan book supports this.
My last 5 early repayments have a weighted average rate of 6.41% v my loan book average of 6.3%. These range from 3 to 35 months old but I still have contracts made during this period at rates in the high 6.x%.
Now I'm not a statistician but I suspect that the difference of 6.41 v 6.3 on a sample of 5 is not significant especially if you add into the equation that refinancing by a borrower will always favour those on higher rates repaying early.
If RS had changed their ways and were refinancing for their own benefit, why would I still have loans at approaching 7% when they could easily reissue them in the 5yr market in the low 5.x% or even better, in rolling at 3.x%. Why would they have chosen the 5 contracts averaging 6.41% when they could easily have chosen 5 that exceeded 6.8%?
In fact why would we not all just end up with rates equivalent to the blended market rate because if I have a loan at 5.2% and someone is willing to lend at 5.1%, surely my loan would be repaid!
RS do things which I feel are a little devious and underhand to manipulate rates but imho refinancing higher rate contracts just isn't one of them.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 16, 2017 11:08:40 GMT
I admit I don't have much patience with Ratesetter, especially leaving money in the queue and waiting the rates going back up.
Right now, it's 2.7% on rolling and 4.2% on 1 year. Imaging losing 90 days of interest a year in the loan queue is like taking 24% chop in the interest.
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Post by skint4achange on Dec 16, 2017 11:21:06 GMT
I admit I don't have much patience with Ratesetter, especially leaving money in the queue and waiting the rates going back up. Right now, it's 2.7% on rolling and 4.2% on 1 year. Imaging losing 90 days of interest a year in the loan queue is like taking 24% chop in the interest. I agree with the above to a degree, but in all honesty I have never waited that long for a higher APR match.
I usually have my settings set at 5.4 and 5.9 on the 1 year market. Reasons for this? Well, most of the money tends to be on the "Normal" APR's, 5.5%, 6.0%, 6.5% etc. So by going 0.1% lower my money tends to be loaned out quicker.
The longest I have waited for a full match was 4 days. There are times that the markets are very low but if you was to watch the market during the day (I am very sad and do not have a life! ) you would see that there are spikes every now and again.
In general, from what I have seen so far, loaning at these rates also has a very low early repayment rate. As mentioned before, the higher your rate the higher the chance of early repayment. Whether this is because of consumers paying early or RS refinancing (Which neither I or anyone else has any proof of!).
From my own experience, losing a couple of days waiting for a 1.0% increase in the rate is more than worth it in the 1 year market, but each to his/her own I suppose.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Dec 16, 2017 11:22:42 GMT
I admit I don't have much patience with Ratesetter, especially leaving money in the queue and waiting the rates going back up. Right now, it's 2.7% on rolling and 4.2% on 1 year. Imaging losing 90 days of interest a year in the loan queue is like taking 24% chop in the interest. On the RS rolling market I have found that it usually worthwhile not to lend over the weekend but instead to wait until Monday morning. RS typically do a major matching run around 12:30 p.m on weekdays and so around 11:30 am - noon one can get a pretty good idea, looking at the demand and supply queues, what is the optimum rate one should pitch and adjust one's offer. The 1 or 2 day cash drag over the weekend is usually more than made up by the better rate achieved on Monday.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Dec 16, 2017 15:37:24 GMT
However dorset's experience ("I had 18 separate loans made in September all at 6%+ which were all paid back last week") suggests that it is RS who is refinancing and so it would be fair, as you suggest, to share some of the gains with the lender who has been prematurely paid off. One nice thing about RS is that they publish all of their loan info. Whilst it doesn't include all the details I'd like (e.g. which lender category it fell into) it does provide a lot of information. So, lets take the above information: 1x lender. 18 loans. All 6%+ lender rate. Compare that to the RS loan book for September: - 10934 loans (likely split into a much larger number of 'lender loans') issued in the month.
- 50.7 million lent out.
- Of those, there are (as of the currently available loan book info, which I suspect is the end of November at best in terms of currency), 528 loans which have either 'repaid' or 'defaulted'.
- Those 528 loans were 3.4m of capital which will have been repaid to lenders, along with a assume, a small amount of interest.
- The borrower rate of those 528 loans varied between 2% and over 22%, with an average 9.9%. This is the borrower rate, lenders get less as RS and the RS PF both take a cut.
Given all of that, is having 1 lender get 18 loans repaid in a week plausible? I would suggest that it is pretty unlikely for any particular lender to have this in any specific week, but given the thousands of lenders then it is bound to happen intermittently. Have you asked them if they do this? I expect that they will answer 'no' which should hopefully close this one down. If you do ring them up and ask them, I'd love to hear the answer... - If they answer 'yes' then your theory is proven. I'll fall off my chair, admit I was wrong and start reducing the cash I lend via RS!
- If they answer 'no' then you have two choices, trust this answer or not. If you don't trust them not to lie to you, then the final question I have for you, is why would you use someone to lend money on your behalf who you don't trust not to lie to you?
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Post by notascooby on Dec 16, 2017 19:12:33 GMT
I admit I don't have much patience with Ratesetter, especially leaving money in the queue and waiting the rates going back up. Right now, it's 2.7% on rolling and 4.2% on 1 year. Imaging losing 90 days of interest a year in the loan queue is like taking 24% chop in the interest. On the RS rolling market I have found that it usually worthwhile not to lend over the weekend but instead to wait until Monday morning. RS typically do a major matching run around 12:30 p.m on weekdays and so around 11:30 am - noon one can get a pretty good idea, looking at the demand and supply queues, what is the optimum rate one should pitch and adjust one's offer. The 1 or 2 day cash drag over the weekend is usually more than made up by the better rate achieved on Monday. Now at 2.5%. Has anyone, or does anyone kept a historic note of rates or other data to see if there is any pattern?
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Post by skint4achange on Dec 16, 2017 19:26:46 GMT
On the RS rolling market I have found that it usually worthwhile not to lend over the weekend but instead to wait until Monday morning. RS typically do a major matching run around 12:30 p.m on weekdays and so around 11:30 am - noon one can get a pretty good idea, looking at the demand and supply queues, what is the optimum rate one should pitch and adjust one's offer. The 1 or 2 day cash drag over the weekend is usually more than made up by the better rate achieved on Monday. Now at 2.5%. Has anyone, or does anyone kept a historic note of rates or other data to see if there is any pattern? The pattern generally tends to be as stated by sapphire . The rates at the weekend are always low and for anyone who follows Ratesetter at regular intervals during the week knows that.
If you look at each market you will see that there are very few matches made at the weekend. So, it is not the fact that the rate is so low, it is the fact that there are very few loans being formed but people still have payments coming in which are reinvested into the markets at their very low reinvestment rates.
Do yourself a favour, wait until during the week to invest as the rates should be better.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Dec 16, 2017 20:41:39 GMT
On the RS rolling market I have found that it usually worthwhile not to lend over the weekend but instead to wait until Monday morning. RS typically do a major matching run around 12:30 p.m on weekdays and so around 11:30 am - noon one can get a pretty good idea, looking at the demand and supply queues, what is the optimum rate one should pitch and adjust one's offer. The 1 or 2 day cash drag over the weekend is usually more than made up by the better rate achieved on Monday. Now at 2.5%. Has anyone, or does anyone kept a historic note of rates or other data to see if there is any pattern? p2pindependentforum.com/post/157158/threadSeems a a bit flakey currently. May have a look at it over Christmas. Still, answers what you want I believe.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 18, 2017 15:04:55 GMT
2 borrowers offer: 4.1% (1 year) for 169k!!!
Bridging loans on ratesetter?
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Post by ogwellian on Dec 20, 2017 8:41:34 GMT
Just had four grand matched at 5.4% on December 11 repaid this morning!
Might put in rolling to get it invested over the Christmas period, rather than holding out for a higher rate.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Dec 20, 2017 8:55:19 GMT
Just had four grand matched at 5.4% on December 11 repaid this morning! Might put in rolling to get it invested over the Christmas period, rather than holding out for a higher rate. Investment in the Rolling market also carries the possibility of an early repayment .... I had a decent amount matched at 4.4% on a 30 day contract on the Rolling market on 6 Dec and it was fully repaid the very next day! Subsequently matched @ 4.1%
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Dec 20, 2017 8:55:44 GMT
You should get 4.1% on the Rolling this morning.
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radar
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Post by radar on Dec 20, 2017 12:40:20 GMT
Got 4.2% on Rolling. I am fed up trying 1 year it takes longer to get a match than the loan lasts. I have had 6 repayments of December loans already all "1 year".
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Post by stevepn on Dec 20, 2017 12:47:08 GMT
I've just noticed that my 1 year loan has been fully repaid over night.
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