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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 1, 2018 16:31:40 GMT
I wonder if ABL have managed to trap themselves in a market which is inherently very limited in size? They seem to looking for strong loans with trustworthy borrowers and good security (all good things) but who are prepared to pay astronomical rates of interest (a problematic combination). But if they were to go for business with lower rates - lets say 7-8% to lenders - it would look unattractive to the established lenders. To put it another way, where would they go looking for borrowers who will be happy to pay 25% or whatever (taking abl's cut into account)? Not sure how they get themselves out of this one. Well I, for one, would cheerfully go on lending on aeroplanes, cars, bling, even if the borrower is the same, if the security is discrete and looks good. Ditto cars. But platform growth by branching out into large/huge/B***** enormous property development loans is a definite no-no .. 'jam tomorrow' security (GDV number) doesn't float my boat. Further loans against substantially the same asset also worry me. Hopefully ABL are managing to get by on <=20%, rather than 25%, but even that is eye watering in today's 'free money' climate.
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 1, 2018 17:14:34 GMT
I wonder if ABL have managed to trap themselves in a market which is inherently very limited in size? They seem to looking for strong loans with trustworthy borrowers and good security (all good things) but who are prepared to pay astronomical rates of interest (a problematic combination). But if they were to go for business with lower rates - lets say 7-8% to lenders - it would look unattractive to the established lenders. To put it another way, where would they go looking for borrowers who will be happy to pay 25% or whatever (taking abl's cut into account)? Not sure how they get themselves out of this one. My understanding is that the answer is the portfolio loans. They work on the basis of 8% to lenders and 4%+ to Ablrate, whereas many borrowers are currently paying over 25% in all. However, these have not yet expanded the borrower family, but rather have kept one borrower in the family. Early days.
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brianlom1
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He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
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Post by brianlom1 on Apr 2, 2018 14:20:36 GMT
I share the general sentiment of this thread, I have a lot of time for Abl but I'm concerned about the lack of diversification (both in terms of the % of my investments on the one platform and the number of repeat borrowers).
Which other platforms would people recommend for diversification purposes (preferably not focused on property in general or big DFL projects in particular)? I'd be happy to compromise on interest rate in order to spread the risk (say, down to 8%).
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garfield
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Post by garfield on Apr 2, 2018 22:14:55 GMT
I share the general sentiment of this thread, I have a lot of time for Abl but I'm concerned about the lack of diversification (both in terms of the % of my investments on the one platform and the number of repeat borrowers). Which other platforms would people recommend for diversification purposes (preferably not focused on property in general or big DFL projects in particular)? I'd be happy to compromise on interest rate in order to spread the risk (say, down to 8%). Have you considered Bondmason?
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Post by df on Apr 3, 2018 0:35:50 GMT
I share the general sentiment of this thread, I have a lot of time for Abl but I'm concerned about the lack of diversification (both in terms of the % of my investments on the one platform and the number of repeat borrowers). Which other platforms would people recommend for diversification purposes (preferably not focused on property in general or big DFL projects in particular)? I'd be happy to compromise on interest rate in order to spread the risk (say, down to 8%). Have you considered Bondmason? I don't think it is possible to achieve 8% on BM (after fees and bad debt), but 6.5% is quite realistic.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 3, 2018 7:09:05 GMT
Have you considered Bondmason? I don't think it is possible to achieve 8% on BM (after fees and bad debt), but 6.5% is quite realistic. I haven’t looked into BM in detail but why is the rate so low? I do much better myself and I’m an amateur
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 3, 2018 7:18:06 GMT
I don't think it is possible to achieve 8% on BM (after fees and bad debt), but 6.5% is quite realistic. I haven’t looked into BM in detail but why is the rate so low? I do much better myself and I’m an amateur This might help, Bondmason fees.
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 3, 2018 7:43:34 GMT
It looks very much like new 'fairer' FC, except that fees are a bit higher and net rates a bit lower. Oh, and you can diversify over 100 loans with just ' a few clicks' - and a wait of about four weeks. Given that FC is a much larger platform, about to float, and takes about two days, why would anyone choose BM?
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garfield
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Post by garfield on Apr 3, 2018 8:12:25 GMT
It looks very much like new 'fairer' FC, except that fees are a bit higher and net rates a bit lower. Oh, and you can diversify over 100 loans with just ' a few clicks' - and a wait of about four weeks. Given that FC is a much larger platform, about to float, and takes about two days, why would anyone choose BM? The top rate (projected) on FC is 7.2%. Many of their loans are unsecured and I'd be very uncertain of them in a downturn. I was in FC for a good while and saw many defaults. BM only invest part of their portfolio in p2p, much of it is now in direct lending. I like their attitude and what they are doing. I think they will come good over the longer term, whatever happens in the economy. I invest with them as part of my lending portfolio and plan to increase my investment in the coming months/years. Otherwise, I'm waiting for more portfolio loans on ABL to take further strain off my decision making.
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Post by df on Apr 3, 2018 8:37:00 GMT
I share the general sentiment of this thread, I have a lot of time for Abl but I'm concerned about the lack of diversification (both in terms of the % of my investments on the one platform and the number of repeat borrowers). Which other platforms would people recommend for diversification purposes (preferably not focused on property in general or big DFL projects in particular)? I'd be happy to compromise on interest rate in order to spread the risk (say, down to 8%). Assets Capital has a range of SME 8% loans secured, but not focused, on property. It comes with the benefit of earning 3.75% on all uninvested funds (reduced cash drag). Unbolted is the one I would recommend most for low risk 8%+. Lending Crowd is more riskier, but I've achieved over 9% for the past 12 months.
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 3, 2018 8:40:16 GMT
Thanks Garfield. FC's average predicted is still 7.5%, but the rate they quote is for a larger percentage of lenders. But it is just a projected number based on current circumstances, it is unsecured, and so I appreciate your points about future performance. Yes this thread is about Ablrate and we all say 'New borrowers, please'.
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Post by fatbritabroad on Apr 3, 2018 8:47:36 GMT
Im going to open an account with lending works. 6%interest and well diversified and protected by insurance and a provision fund. Seems good to me.i have enough in ablrate now for my Cautious nature and will simply reinvest interest
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Post by ablrate on Apr 3, 2018 9:50:51 GMT
I wonder if ABL have managed to trap themselves in a market which is inherently very limited in size? They seem to looking for strong loans with trustworthy borrowers and good security (all good things) but who are prepared to pay astronomical rates of interest (a problematic combination). But if they were to go for business with lower rates - lets say 7-8% to lenders - it would look unattractive to the established lenders. To put it another way, where would they go looking for borrowers who will be happy to pay 25% or whatever (taking abl's cut into account)? Not sure how they get themselves out of this one. Hi ceejay Our over arching model is to build a sustainable, profitable business in the P2P space. There are plenty of platforms that have got themselves stuck in a 'low margin - high volume' trap and over time they will disappear, be consolidated or move away from the P2P model altogether. We have a great base of customers who we know well, a very active and discerning lender base, not afraid to give us free advice! The portfolio loan product is about to be expanded across different borrowers and we have increased our business development team, with another new hire starting next week and we are on the hunt for more office space. I hate to tempt fate... but right now, things are going very much according to plan.
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Post by fatbritabroad on Apr 3, 2018 10:09:07 GMT
I was just about to say i would far prefer slow and steady than quick and collateral.
im definitely no expert on p2p hence why ive only got small amounts in each loan but abl do seem to go above and beyond what id expect in terms of communication and the loans look good quality albeit a small number of borrowers is a very valid concern
The portfolio loans will definitely help. Im opening lending works as i want a 'safer' investment for some of my short term cash and to diversify platforms (still keeping a decent emergency cash sum) so this is the only reason why im looking at alternatives. Ive got enough in now that i can keep investing using interest only
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Post by westcountry on Apr 3, 2018 10:23:17 GMT
I was just about to say i would far prefer slow and steady than quick and collateral. im definitely no expert on p2p hence why ive only got small amounts in each loan but abl do seem to go above and beyond what id expect in terms of communication and the loans look good quality albeit a small number of borrowers is a very valid concern The portfolio loans will definitely help. Im opening lending works as i want a 'safer' investment for some of my short term cash and to diversify platforms (still keeping a decent emergency cash sum) so this is the only reason why im looking at alternatives. Ive got enough in now that i can keep investing using interest only fatbritabroad , I invested in Lending Works a couple of years ago, and they charged a 0.6% fee (min £20) on selling out of your loans - so unless this has since changed, it may not be a good platform to use for short-term cash.
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