Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 9, 2018 9:21:21 GMT
brilliant DD - just love this forum! Not sure how this affects the FS charge - i.e. just what are they protecting ? Could this be the first charge holders making sure they get 100% first dibs if this one defaults? I assume it's evidence of the refinance progressing. If the new lenders minimum loan size is £1m then I guess it's a refinance of both 1st charge and the FS 2nd charge (of which the supplementary loan ranks lower priority than the development loan). If you're willing to stump up £3 to get the LR record then you can tell me when the borrower took ownership. Most new lenders require 6 months from registration before they will consider refinancing - CML rules and probably why the borrower had to go to the likes of FS to secure development finance at rates of 20%+ You are up early for a Sunday. Perhaps Dan1 you could start a PayPal account we could start a group of those want info could put a few p each into to allow you to get info you could then PM results. I would think most of us here trust your excellent work on everything you do I would add a few pence extra for coffees and a chocolate chip cookie
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Post by dan1 on Sept 9, 2018 10:03:37 GMT
I assume it's evidence of the refinance progressing. If the new lenders minimum loan size is £1m then I guess it's a refinance of both 1st charge and the FS 2nd charge (of which the supplementary loan ranks lower priority than the development loan). If you're willing to stump up £3 to get the LR record then you can tell me when the borrower took ownership. Most new lenders require 6 months from registration before they will consider refinancing - CML rules and probably why the borrower had to go to the likes of FS to secure development finance at rates of 20%+ You are up early for a Sunday. Perhaps Dan1 you could start a PayPal account we could start a group of those want info could put a few p each into to allow you to get info you could then PM results. I would think most of us here trust your excellent work on everything you do I would add a few pence extra for coffees and a chocolate chip cookie I'm a sticky bun kind of fellow😁
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
Posts: 2,011
Likes: 1,013
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 9, 2018 10:05:40 GMT
You are up early for a Sunday. Perhaps Dan1 you could start a PayPal account we could start a group of those want info could put a few p each into to allow you to get info you could then PM results. I would think most of us here trust your excellent work on everything you do I would add a few pence extra for coffees and a chocolate chip cookie I'm a sticky bun kind of fellow😁 Sorry that is too much of a sugar rush you might make a mistake 
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adrian77
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 17, 2018 17:31:24 GMT
I had a risky nibble in this one - so all I can say is "phew" and thanks for the interest...
To be honest glad this one has been passed to another player who are welcome to it!
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rogerthat
Member of DD Central
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Post by rogerthat on Oct 17, 2018 17:47:59 GMT
I had a risky nibble in this one - so all I can say is "phew" and thanks for the interest... To be honest glad this one has been passed to another player who are welcome to it! Cant understand your worries...safe as ….. already got an incentive to get up tomorrow..French clocks renewing..1000 2000 3000 Geronimo
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trium
Member of DD Central
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Post by trium on Oct 17, 2018 18:03:27 GMT
... I reach for my smutty stick...granted its a very good area but I am not risking it. I admire that kind of decisiveness. No means no. Maybe.
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Imothep
Member of DD Central
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Post by Imothep on Oct 18, 2018 6:48:49 GMT
Some decent well thought out comments on this thread and as usual some absolute nonsense and wild speculation . Tranches were renewed , interest was paid on time and it was then redeemed , so investors invested , and got paid ( well ) . The deal went exactly as planned and agreed with the platform. The only hiccup was the refinance fell through the first time as the lender pulled out of the UK property market 36 hours prior to legal completion , this was one of 10 deals that were due to complete . Thanks to the many that invested in this project . I have found my first experience of using p2p to be interesting to say the least , FS were not the easiest to deal with , there also seem to be some very vocal negative nellies that invest on this forum that really seem to bring no value to it . I think my favourite comment had to be something along the lines of “ well this chap has a very large first charge , I do hope he can service it “ 😂😂😂 , like why on earth would you develop out a project with out the funds to service the principle and other debt ... jeez , is that sold DD or  I’m happy to answer questions about my experience with FS honestly and from a borrowers perspective if that provides value . |
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adrian77
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 18, 2018 7:55:27 GMT
thanks for the positive input - I said I was not risking the current loan and when this chap announced he was refinancing I had a nibble which was clearly the right decision (as hindsight is a perfect science). Also I listen to other comments.
I could make cheap annonymous negative comments from the sidelines but I have the whatsits to stick my head about the parapet.
Fortune favours the brave but I am still glad I only had a nibble in this one.
This one has been interesting.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 18, 2018 10:24:47 GMT
Some decent well thought out comments on this thread and as usual some absolute nonsense and wild speculation . Tranches were renewed , interest was paid on time and it was then redeemed , so investors invested , and got paid ( well ) . The deal went exactly as planned and agreed with the platform. The only hiccup was the refinance fell through the first time as the lender pulled out of the UK property market 36 hours prior to legal completion , this was one of 10 deals that were due to complete . Thanks to the many that invested in this project . I have found my first experience of using p2p to be interesting to say the least , FS were not the easiest to deal with , there also seem to be some very vocal negative nellies that invest on this forum that really seem to bring no value to it . I think my favourite comment had to be something along the lines of “ well this chap has a very large first charge , I do hope he can service it “ 😂😂😂 , like why on earth would you develop out a project with out the funds to service the principle and other debt ... jeez , is that sold DD or I’m happy to answer questions about my experience with FS honestly and from a borrowers perspective if that provides value . Fair criticism but then this is an anonymous forum - I'm not sure who it was directed at but I guess that doesn't matter. On the subject of anonymous, do you believe it was right to comment on your own loan prior to informing other users that you were the borrower? The posts I refer to have now been deleted. It's a stark warning to all that those who post may not be all that the appear to be. In terms of questions, I would be interested on your thoughts on the following: - In what way were FS not the easiest to deal with? - your brought to our attention the CML 6 month rule, thank you. All I would ask is why on earth do you think that FS don't state this on their loan listings? It makes perfect sense that you couldn't re-mortgage to fund renovations with a mainstream lender because of this restriction hence approaching the likes of FS. - Would you borrow through FS again?, and finally... - Would you borrow through P2P again?
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Imothep
Member of DD Central
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Post by Imothep on Oct 18, 2018 12:06:25 GMT
Hi Dan
I didn’t know I was not allowed to , and when the mods contacted me to let me know I shouldn’t , I apologised and removed them immediately. Nothing i said in those deleted comments was misleading in any way and if i remember were general comments and not really connected to the loan .
Later comments made on the forum , I have said clearly that i’m the borrower ( loan updates ) as advised to again by the mods if it was in relation to my loan , if not i was told that i don’t have to . I’m also an investor in some platforms but nothing major just small ones.
Im guessing as a mod you can see those messages .
Your questions answered :
I’m going to refrain from answering in detail no 1 , as i’m not sure if thats very professional , safe to say , it was not plain sailing with them , highly stressful and towards the end extremely difficult to get drawdowns filled , this obviously had a direct impact on the business cash flow, we were able to cover it as we plan for these events . I was very transparent with FS and provided a highly detailed report every two weeks as i normally do to a lender with access to open book accounting including all payments related to the project.
I don’t know is the answer , maybe because they don’t have to ? Maybe because it’s asset based finance and the loan is on the perceived value of the asset not the reason it is needed ?
I would not borrow through FS again , I will probably structure the next large high value refurb that I do differently so that i don’t have to get involved in 2nd charge lending , it is an absolute pain in the a**.
Yes I would and will use P2P again, it has its uses for tricky deals to structure .
Finally , maybe i wasn’t clear , I think the forum is great, it allows like minded people to do research into their investments , but , this is high risk lending , it comes with losses and i think as difficult as FS were to deal with , and believe me they were , I don’t think it fair to blame everything on the platforms and the borrowers. I also find this attitude that every property developer is a spiv and crook to be really offensive . I am proud to do what I do , i love building quality houses in the high end prime londen market and i’m proud of what as a company we deliver.
Cheers and thnaks agian to anyone that chucked their money into my deal.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Oct 18, 2018 13:35:23 GMT
Hi Dan I didn’t know I was not allowed to , Cheers and thnaks agian to anyone that chucked their money into my deal. I suspect you had a pretty good idea, you just lacked the ability to hide it well enough here
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adrian77
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 18, 2018 20:13:05 GMT
Setting aside the members who want to make cutting negative comments and those who frequently tell us how damn wonderful they are I think this one raises an interesting point which is this:
I have noticed that property (and other) loans are either used as originally intended or refinanced. Has anybody any thoughts or even data about how this breaks down. It looks to me that e.g. the snow dome was a complete non-starter and I did not invest in it. But on the other hand this paid a good rate and was refinanced so happy days for the investors and my loss!
I would be interested to know what percentage of property loans get refinanced and hence come good compared to those that are used to develop and go bad e.g.Barnoldswick which worried me even before the latest snaggette.
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Imothep
Member of DD Central
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Post by Imothep on Oct 18, 2018 22:06:20 GMT
I think if the term was more realistic less would be refinanced . e.g. on a refurb like this if it had been a 12 month term then it would not have been refinanced and redeemed early as that would have given enough time to do the work ans sell it . I really think that has a lot to do with it , of course it may have nothing to do with it !
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 19, 2018 6:43:40 GMT
[...] it was not plain sailing with them , highly stressful and towards the end extremely difficult to get drawdowns filled , this obviously had a direct impact on the business cash flow, we were able to cover it as we plan for these events . I was very transparent with FS and provided a highly detailed report every two weeks as i normally do to a lender with access to open book accounting including all payments related to the project. [...] Imothep many thanks for sharing your thoughts, just a couple of observations from me.
Once you got into the supplemental facility (effective 3rd charge) it was inevitable that getting the tranches filled would get hard. Did you mis-calclulate the size of the initial facility, or was you limited to that initial figure by FS ?
Had you considered sharing your bi-weekly report directly with lenders (on DDC) to assist with filling those later tranches ?
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Imothep
Member of DD Central
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Post by Imothep on Oct 19, 2018 11:55:07 GMT
[...] it was not plain sailing with them , highly stressful and towards the end extremely difficult to get drawdowns filled , this obviously had a direct impact on the business cash flow, we were able to cover it as we plan for these events . I was very transparent with FS and provided a highly detailed report every two weeks as i normally do to a lender with access to open book accounting including all payments related to the project. [...] Imothep many thanks for sharing your thoughts, just a couple of observations from me.
Once you got into the supplemental facility (effective 3rd charge) it was inevitable that getting the tranches filled would get hard. Did you mis-calclulate the size of the initial facility, or was you limited to that initial figure by FS ?
Had you considered sharing your bi-weekly report directly with lenders (on DDC) to assist with filling those later tranches ?
so, in reply , the original facility was sufficient , however , we reported early on to the platform that we had some unforeseen issues in the ground and with some restraining which took the contingency and a bit more , we also decided that we wanted to increase the spec of certain packages , this was effectively the supplemental and fully agree with the property manager prior to asking . interestingly now , looking at the budget and what we have spent now it’s pretty much complete , with out the overspend in the ground ( which could not have been foreseen as we needed to buy it before we could do trial pits ) and the increase in spec , we would have been exactly on the original budget of aprox £250 sq ft. Also , it was the last tranches of the main loan that were very very slow and i’m talking i think one took almost two weeks to fill. Kinda of pointless paying a premium to have 2 weekly drawdown if you have to then cash flow it yourself . The platform was very illiquid at the time and it improved wit h the supplemental . i would have been happy to share them , and i did think about it , there were two reasons that i didn’t , one was , i’m not sure i was allowed to by the platform & two , there are a huge amount of opinions on the platform and that’s why the platform charge their monthly fee , ie to deal with them . I had two projects on at the same time in the last 6months , both complicated in the ground and FS were being hard work , it was pretty stressful and i think if i had been sitting in bed answering questions on the ipad to the forum about my reports , my long suffering wife may have just hit her limit , and there are only so many LV bags i can afford to buy her to say sorry 
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