sandbrain
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Post by sandbrain on Apr 28, 2018 9:41:23 GMT
I'm thinking that with fix term investment you would, in any case, only be able to offset any net loss once term matures.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Apr 28, 2018 9:45:15 GMT
Halfway through a 2 year investment at 4% here. 6.67% suspended with forecast recovery in 2 yrs time of perhaps half of that (which, I assume, will be the same percentage for everyone). As mentioned by others, my concern is how many more loans will become non-performing over the remainder of the term... I wonder why the recovery is not expected until 2020 and the amount to be retrieved is apparently predictable. Evidently not a loan secured by assets which can be sold off in 2018?
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sandbrain
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Post by sandbrain on Apr 28, 2018 9:54:56 GMT
I wonder why the recovery is not expected until 2020 and the amount to be retrieved is apparently predictable. Evidently not a loan secured by assets which can be sold off in 2018? They mention in their FAQs:
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Apr 28, 2018 10:42:07 GMT
Not great news, ... why wasn't the loss crystallised before 5 Apr. I'm not a tax whizz so I suspect the loss could be backdated but now it a year before I can recharge against tax. I wonder why the recovery is not expected until 2020 and the amount to be retrieved is apparently predictable. Evidently not a loan secured by assets which can be sold off in 2018? I agree with both of the above and it is strange that loss has just been crystallised, and yet there has been enough time to predict the recovery fraction in two years. I'm thinking that with fix term investment you would, in any case, only be able to offset any net loss once term matures. Not sure about that. If the bit of loan we are in is in some formal process we should be able to offset against our other P2P investments. In any case, some of my investments paid income monthly and I am not seeing any difference. Halfway through a 2 year investment at 4% here. 6.67% suspended with forecast recovery in 2 yrs time of perhaps half of that (which, I assume, will be the same percentage for everyone). I am seeing 6.66% for my larger investments. My smaller investments are slightly different which I assume is due to rounding loss and recovery to the nearest penny. Trustpilot collecting a few bad reviews. Might add one myself if the amount of information doesn't improve in the next week or two.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 28, 2018 11:22:26 GMT
In fact, wasn't there a third level of security advertised, which was that Wellesley invested some of its its “own money” in each loan and would take first loss. No reference to that either in the email, so that must have gone out the window at some point too.
Not much compensation I'm sorry to say if you've been informed of looming losses. At the time of their post, the W market rates were highly competitive, then reduced after their TV blitz. Then reduced again when they were trying to hike the W bond.
Wasn't for me so I managed to fully exit the platform about a month ago as everything matured - thank goodness.
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sandbrain
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Post by sandbrain on Apr 28, 2018 11:58:54 GMT
Wasn't for me so I managed to fully exit the platform about a month ago - thank goodness.
Nice timing!
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 28, 2018 12:46:59 GMT
Wasn't for me so I managed to fully exit the platform about a month ago - thank goodness.
Nice timing! Thank you but it was 'lucky' timing.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Apr 28, 2018 12:54:06 GMT
Thank you but it was 'lucky' timing. Useful reminder that a lot can change in 5 years and the premium for such an investment needs to cover that as well as any yield curve view, especially if there is a harsh penalty charge for an early exit. I wouldn't touch Wellesley with a bargepole now, but 4 years ago I didn't feel like that.
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iren
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Post by iren on Apr 28, 2018 13:35:19 GMT
Thank you but it was 'lucky' timing. Useful reminder that a lot can change in 5 years and the premium for such an investment needs to cover that as well as any yield curve view, especially if there is a harsh penalty charge for an early exit. I wouldn't touch Wellesley with a bargepole now, but 4 years ago I didn't feel like that. Very true. If I’d decided in 2015 to start running down my investment on another platform, as I did with Wellesley, I expect that I would have exited long ago through a combination of the natural repayment of loans and the secondary market. In fact, I have successfully exited other platforms that I decided to withdraw from much more recently. On Wellesley, our money is loaned out over and over again whenever it is repaid, with early exit penalised, until the end of term, according to a lending policy that Wellesley can change at any time. Meanwhile, Wellesley has exited the P2P market for new customers, ceased to communicate meaningfully with investors, and the protections advertised at the time of investment have disappeared without notification or explanation. I won’t be making this type of investment again, but that’s something I already decided a good while ago.
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iren
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Post by iren on Apr 28, 2018 15:54:53 GMT
In fact, wasn't there a third level of security advertised, which was that Wellesley invested some of its its “own money” in each loan and would take first loss. No reference to that either in the email, so that must have gone out the window at some point too.
Not much compensation I'm sorry to say if you've been informed of looming losses. At the time of their post, the W market rates were highly competitive, then reduced after their TV blitz. Then reduced again when they were trying to hike the W bond.
Wasn't for me so I managed to fully exit the platform about a month ago as everything matured - thank goodness.
“… therefore we feel that in the case of a default, we would be able to recoup our client money (and our own money) very quickly and successfully” said Wellesley at the end of that post. I don’t think we should take Wellesley’s prediction of recovery numbers and dates in the current defaults any more seriously than this comment from 2014. Why would the recovery completion date be estimated for 2020? Either the assets will be marketed now, meaning the bulk of the recovery would take place more quickly, or there would be a continued build on a development loan, in which case why would the estimated recovery be so low? This smacks of public relations management rather than meaningful numbers and dates.
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Post by organum on May 1, 2018 9:20:56 GMT
I don't remember every getting such a warning from W. There must have been non performing loans before but now there is a stonking great non performing loss (based on the amount each of us is advised but a guess). I hope we are not all being prepared for larger shocks.
Hmm
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dandy
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Post by dandy on May 1, 2018 9:26:09 GMT
I don't remember every getting such a warning from W. There must have been non performing loans before but now there is a stonking great non performing loss (based on the amount each of us is advised but a guess). I hope we are not all being prepared for larger shocks. Hmm I am not on W but do you see the loans you are invested in? Or is it entirely black box?
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Post by organum on May 1, 2018 9:52:56 GMT
I have to retract about total transparency as the loan book is available for members at secure.wellesley.co.uk/loanbook. There are lots of non performing loans and only some have first charges. For me this has been a black box but slowly seems to be opening up which is probably why non performing loans were not declared before. My best guess is that we are all looking at a 6.6% of capital write off when our investments mature with them holding on to that amount and with recovery in 2020 likely to bring the loss down to 3.6% of capital.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on May 8, 2018 8:38:16 GMT
If only they'd left it another 9 months, I could have had a "clean break" from the 5 year investment just like the 3 and 4 year investors at the same time (and 3 year investors up to a year later) have already enjoyed...
I don't recall exactly what tiers of protection I thought Wellesley had at the time, but I do recall I considered it somewhat more fragile ("higher risk") than RateSetter for example, and was unwilling to invest further when the rates offered were cut just under 4 years ago (the re-introduction of highly misleading "annual" rates didn't help either).
Looking at the downloaded loan book, I see that most of the "non-performing" loans date from 2014 and 2015, so the investors whose money was used to make those loans, and who were offered relatively high interest rates in recognition of the risk, have mostly had their money back (just 5 year investors like me remain), whilst the newer investors who were offered only lower rates on what had seemed a "proven" product are now suffering the effects of that risk. I also get the general impression of a loan book that had been much larger but is in the process of being run down, which is broadly as would be expected. There seem to be 5 "Performing" loans due to repay in 1 month, so I'll need to remember to look back at it and compare...
Perhaps crystallising the historic losses was a condition for allowing a P2P product to be re-opened, as the FCA wouldn't allow these historic losses to be passed on to another set of even newer investors? If so, this could be a one-time deal rather than the start of an ever-worsening position, and could even have been positioned so that the announcement was a relatively pessimistic recovery scenario, so that a positive announcement can follow if the recoveries are as good as they REALLY expect (and perhaps co-incide with further marketing of a new P2P product?).
Alternatively, if this is the initial "soft" announcement, with further losses/restrictions to follow, I just hope that there isn't too much more negative news within the next 9 months to wipe out the gains from the last 4 years or so.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 7:38:57 GMT
According to their documentation, Wellesley P2P money is only invested in “secure” asset backed loans. So one assumes that if the loan if defaulted that Wellesley has seizure rights on the assets. So did Wellesley actually lend more money than the anticipated value of the assets. It would seem so, because their predicted recovery is only for just over 50% of the initial investment according to the information they sent me.
And this is despite their “provision fund” and the fact that they “invested their own money”. In the long run we will probably find out that Wellesley has been taking new investment funds and applying these to loans which they knew were already defaulting or were already under paying.
6.25% default in one year - something extremely fishy about all of this.
Not happy. Withdrawn all funds I can. I doubt I will see another penny. I will never go near this company with any of my money in future.
Regardless of the legality of any of this, Wellesley has totally lost my trust. I guess their next move will be to rename the company or something similar and pick on some other gullible investors in some other way.
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