jlend
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Post by jlend on May 8, 2018 19:27:09 GMT
If you go to the 'Your Portfolio' tab in the left-hand menu and set your 'current' repayments screen to 'Jun 2018' you will see all loan repayments due in that date range. Currently, all the 'Rolling' loans created up to today's date are showing as repayable in full for me. I don't think these 'Rolling' loans will cease immediately tomorrow (current Terms and Conditions anyone?) but at the ealiest on 8th June itself. Despite what I said in my post yesterday, I now believe that only money invested after 5th June will be subject to the new Ts & Cs. This was reinforced by a response in the Q&As below the blog entry. Also they are saying that the new Ts & Cs will not be sent to investors until 1st June. I made a small investment in the rolling market today hoping to shed some more light, but the loan repays on 5th June (ie. after 28 days rather than 30). I don't know whether this is deliberate or just a coincidence. Does anyone have a loan made today that repays after 5th June? 8th June is the latest I have.
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amphoria
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Post by amphoria on May 8, 2018 21:07:29 GMT
Despite what I said in my post yesterday, I now believe that only money invested after 5th June will be subject to the new Ts & Cs. This was reinforced by a response in the Q&As below the blog entry. Also they are saying that the new Ts & Cs will not be sent to investors until 1st June. I made a small investment in the rolling market today hoping to shed some more light, but the loan repays on 5th June (ie. after 28 days rather than 30). I don't know whether this is deliberate or just a coincidence. Does anyone have a loan made today that repays after 5th June? 8th June is the latest I have. Ok it was obviously just a coincidence. The reason why I believe that money invested prior to 6th June will not be subject to the new Ts & Cs (apart from the fact that they have not been published yet) is the Ratesetter response to your question "Will I be able to see how long the individual contracts are on the rolling market after the change as I can on the 5 year market?". Their response is "Investors can already access this information for the Rolling market. In the member area select the “Rolling” link which appears under “your Portfolio” in the menu on the left hand side of the page. Then click on the plus sign next to “On Loan”, then select “Your money on loan”. From there you can see all the contracts you are matched to and their duration." Up until now this has always shown a date up to 30 days from the date that the investment was made for the Rolling market. The response implies that this will change to the end date of the underlying loan. This change would not appear to have happened yet.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on May 9, 2018 2:57:37 GMT
I note that there has been a 2 million drop in the funds available in this market. Are RS listening?
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jlend
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Post by jlend on May 9, 2018 6:35:39 GMT
8th June is the latest I have. Ok it was obviously just a coincidence. The reason why I believe that money invested prior to 6th June will not be subject to the new Ts & Cs (apart from the fact that they have not been published yet) is the Ratesetter response to your question "Will I be able to see how long the individual contracts are on the rolling market after the change as I can on the 5 year market?". Their response is "Investors can already access this information for the Rolling market. In the member area select the “Rolling” link which appears under “your Portfolio” in the menu on the left hand side of the page. Then click on the plus sign next to “On Loan”, then select “Your money on loan”. From there you can see all the contracts you are matched to and their duration." Up until now this has always shown a date up to 30 days from the date that the investment was made for the Rolling market. The response implies that this will change to the end date of the underlying loan. This change would not appear to have happened yet. I assume we will start seeing longer dates only after the change is implemented in June. So am guessing any rates on loans I currently have will be disregarded and a new loan with the market rate will be setup as my current loans mature in June and July.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 9, 2018 7:00:11 GMT
Ok it was obviously just a coincidence. The reason why I believe that money invested prior to 6th June will not be subject to the new Ts & Cs (apart from the fact that they have not been published yet) is the Ratesetter response to your question "Will I be able to see how long the individual contracts are on the rolling market after the change as I can on the 5 year market?". Their response is "Investors can already access this information for the Rolling market. In the member area select the “Rolling” link which appears under “your Portfolio” in the menu on the left hand side of the page. Then click on the plus sign next to “On Loan”, then select “Your money on loan”. From there you can see all the contracts you are matched to and their duration." Up until now this has always shown a date up to 30 days from the date that the investment was made for the Rolling market. The response implies that this will change to the end date of the underlying loan. This change would not appear to have happened yet. I assume we will start seeing longer dates only after the change is implemented in June. So am guessing any rates on loans I currently have will be disregarded and a new loan with the market rate will be setup as my current loans mature in June and July. This seems to be the case, just checked and all my Rolling contracts written yesterday have an end date of 8th June so still 30 days at the moment
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on May 9, 2018 7:43:36 GMT
Ive pulled my 30k out of rolling and into AC where it will stay until MR hits 3.5%+. Pigs might fly when that happens.
The dumb money is being fleeced...
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jlend
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Post by jlend on May 9, 2018 9:12:25 GMT
I assume we will start seeing longer dates only after the change is implemented in June. So am guessing any rates on loans I currently have will be disregarded and a new loan with the market rate will be setup as my current loans mature in June and July. This seems to be the case, just checked and all my Rolling contracts written yesterday have an end date of 8th June so still 30 days at the moment The ones matched today have a date of 11th June.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on May 9, 2018 9:45:26 GMT
I note that there has been a 2 million drop in the funds available in this market. Are RS listening?
I think they will have assumed there may be a short blip in rates as a few lenders withdraw their money, but they will soon attract new lenders with their current promotional offer to fill the gap. Loosing a few percent of their lender base wont cause them any sleepless nights. They recovered relatively quickly last year when they had the issue with the failing loans and the fee free sellout offer on all markets. I doubt this change will have the same impact. Rates went up for a short time but soon fell as it became old news. The lend it now rate means they can to some extent manage the market rate, albeit not completely. I would hope if the margin between the lender and borrower rate increases a little that they will put some of the money into the provision fund rather than use it all to boost their profits. Getting the PF coverage ratio towards the top end of their target prudent range of 125 to 150 percent would be good given the economy may be in for an uncertain few years. It is not great it has been stubbornly outside this range even in the "good years".
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TheDriver
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Post by TheDriver on May 9, 2018 14:01:45 GMT
Do most people using the "Rolling" market frequently withdraw their funds, or invest there like an "instant access" account over the longer term in case of need? Due to interest relativities I assume it's the former, but if ( as I suspect) many do the latter, the implications of reinvesting every monthly repayment look farcical: Accounts will become cluttered with pages of ever-smaller loans!
In a year one loan will spawn over 60 additional loans from the repayments, which would double again in the next 5 months!
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 9, 2018 14:25:09 GMT
"RateSetter was created to enable people like you to earn more on your money. We were the first to introduce a “rolling” market to make peer-to-peer lending more accessible and flexible. Since then, the RateSetter Rolling market has become our most popular investment market, [is] used by two-thirds of our investors. "
But...
"As capital and interest is repaid by borrowers, it is returned to investors in monthly instalments for the duration of the investment. These repayments will be [i.e. under the new rules] automatically reinvested back into the Rolling market at the prevailing Market Rate. As the overwhelming majority (up to 93%) of our investors currently reinvest at the Market Rate, a proportion that continues to rise over time, we have decided to withdraw the option of selecting a bespoke rate for reinvested money in the Rolling market."
[That's '93%' of '2/3' of investors??]
I also wanted to raise the thought that we don't know who any of the coutner-parties to these loans are and (in particular) how many of 'them' and how much of 'their' borrowing is actually Ratesetter 'Rolling' 60 month loans etc. Won't the volume of both 'borrowing' and 'lending' become a trickle in comparison with what we see today? What is the real demand for loans from borrowers that needs to be satifisied?
If the rolling market isn't really for 30 day loans then what is it there for? How is it not tantamount to a formal ponzi scheme? [And who paid off the regulators to agree to all this?]
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rscal
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Post by rscal on May 9, 2018 14:51:48 GMT
Do most people using the "Rolling" market frequently withdraw their funds, or invest there like an "instant access" account over the longer term in case of need? Due to interest relativities I assume it's the former, but if ( as I suspect) many do the latter, the implications of reinvesting every monthly repayment look farcical: Accounts will become cluttered with pages of ever-smaller loans!In a year one loan will spawn over 60 additional loans from the repayments, which would double again in the next 5 months! What I do (at least) is use the Rolling repayments via a set rate plus any repayments from 1 year or 5 year markets to build up a revolving balance in Rolling. I have used the 1 year market - when it was better a few month ago - to 'lock in' (albetit for a non guaranteed period) for up to 12 months repayments from running down/frequently paid back early 5 year loans and or diverted from Rolling itself. I have made use of the 'one-off withdrawal' feature quite often (one only yesterday) but generally leave money Rolling each to to and 'enjoy' the flexibility that Ratesetter has created of its business model. As a side note my daily single amounts placed on Rolling are quite often not lent-out whole and are divided between multiple borrowers - suggesting from the amounts that they are not 'loans' to buy things but bridging payments. Ratesetter has disregarded my intention to have nice large chuncks (as few as possible) spaced out evenly through the month and by setting a variable date imposed irregular and lumpy cycles such as last week's when a full one thrid of my money was repaid and placed on a single day (It sould really averge out at 1/23 or 1/20th approximately per working day) Maybe part of the motivation for this change is that it's too much fiddling for their computer to manage? Another thought: will all the actual repayments still all arrive 'together' as they do in Rolling or will they filter-in over the course of the day as they currently do for the 5 year?
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69m
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Post by 69m on May 9, 2018 16:25:03 GMT
Do most people using the "Rolling" market frequently withdraw their funds, or invest there like an "instant access" account over the longer term in case of need? Due to interest relativities I assume it's the former, but if ( as I suspect) many do the latter, the implications of reinvesting every monthly repayment look farcical: Accounts will become cluttered with pages of ever-smaller loans!In a year one loan will spawn over 60 additional loans from the repayments, which would double again in the next 5 months! I suspect that a lot of people do the latter, without actively managing their accounts (hence why so many lenders are already happy to accept the Market Rate). As long as the Rolling market provides a better return than a regular instant-access savings account would, then they're content.
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TheDriver
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Post by TheDriver on May 10, 2018 7:12:06 GMT
Amongst all the reassuring platitudes from RS, I take particular issue with the following extract from the Q & A:"Automatic reinvestments at Market Rate will result in continuous earnings for all." The only continuous earning aspect will be the original loan - which I agree is a potential advantage - but I anticipate that repayments will actually sit in a queue awaiting matching; which could be for some days unless they are given an unmentioned priority, a la LW.None of this really needs the enforcement of the Market Rate, for which RS are relying on surplus funding being available to avoid a dramatic upward spike! Obviously the loan-linked matching and "Fair Usage" policy will provide more continuity of funding, and presumably RS will succeed in managing new applications to below the level of funding to remain solvent, although that's an inherent risk (as it could significantly raise the Market Rate). Unless a lot of funding is withdrawn, anyone setting their own rate might have a long wait for a match, although it seems that RS is relying on potential buffering from these lenders. None of this really concerns me directly as most of my funds are in 1 year for the better rate, although if all funding becomes sourced from the Rolling market (as much seems to be now) both rate and differential is reduced. As an aside, I did email a query about the change directly to RS, and the garbled reply (which seemed to be a collection of stock phrases, compiled out of context) suggested they are either very busy or semi-illiterate!
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Post by befuddled on May 10, 2018 9:37:28 GMT
Maybe it's as simple as RS seeing the potential £11.3M on rolling Market set at >>3.1% and wanting to get their hands on it. Will all that money waiting at higher rates instantly be available at the market rate once they push the button...? Will those people be happy to see their punt at say 3.5% (£2.2M) suddenly hit the market at 2.5% Were these the people that complained their money was not being matched, hard to believe, they could always have reduced their own rate to get in the game rather than having RS do it for them, at a rate out of their control... Befuddled as usual..... Attachments:
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Post by investor1925 on May 10, 2018 18:11:32 GMT
Maybe it's as simple as RS seeing the potential £11.3M on rolling Market set at >>3.1% and wanting to get their hands on it. Will all that money waiting at higher rates instantly be available at the market rate once they push the button...? Will those people be happy to see their punt at say 3.5% (£2.2M) suddenly hit the market at 2.5% Were these the people that complained their money was not being matched, hard to believe, they could always have reduced their own rate to get in the game rather than having RS do it for them, at a rate out of their control... Befuddled as usual..... I think that nothing will happen to any bids that are on the market at fixed rates at the start of the new way of working, they'll just sit there till they match (or not) However, if you reduce your rate to get a match, your repayments from that match will be stuck at market rate permanently, and your capital will be stuck there till the actual end of the loan, (not the normal 30 days) which could be up to 5 years. (unless it's amortising) The only way out is to sell out, but then you can't re-invest for 14 days (in the rolling market) I'm basically pulling mine as it repays & will watch the rolling market to see where rates go. If they stay low, it's never going back in. P.S. Anybody used Growthstreet, as I'm maxed out on 7 of the biggest platforms & don't want to send my RS returns to any of those
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