mariner
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Post by mariner on Jun 3, 2018 19:29:53 GMT
They certainly do not want any more defaults, but that will be inevitable I'm afraid, given the number of late loans with their senseless updates
47 in Default at this time, worth £6,245,753.88 + a helluva lot of interest
110 Late as of today's date, worth £32,387,479.96 + a colossus amount in interest with almost £1.5 million due to be paid back in the next week
Well Over £38 Million outstanding, but will no doubt increase by the end of next week
Truly scandalous
FS cannot continue at this pace
Heading for meltdown IMO
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jul 1, 2018 18:03:27 GMT
exactly - why don't FS simply take the most sellable item of this collection and put the damn thing to market ! I thought this was part of the contract we had with FS - I too am in several of these and very annoyed we were not told they were connected.
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 6, 2018 15:11:52 GMT
exactly - why don't FS simply take the most sellable item of this collection and put the damn thing to market ! I thought this was part of the contract we had with FS - I too am in several of these and very annoyed we were not told they were connected. Me too.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Jul 6, 2018 17:34:13 GMT
what sort of system have the got in 2018 - Sinclair ZX or nothing so advanced! I find it very hard to believe they can't write a simple programme to do this or they they are even more amateurish than I thought...I worked for a major auction house and such data had to be readily retrieved to check for money laundering if nothing else. I think the above quotation is a load of horlicks... Totally agree A simple Excel spreadsheet would be enough to generate the information No doubt you've noted that the current military collection struggling to fill (as with everything else it seems) has the following on the GI tab "The borrower currently has other loans with similar assets. These are loan agreement numbers 1013434811, 1410173723, 9114684713 and 2240243169" So it seems that what couldn't be done a few months ago..can !..all a bit late for me as any trust in a transparent platform has long since gone. Unless FS sort out the log jam of unredeemed and overdues and stop the can kicking, I can only see one outcome and its not going to be far down the road at its present rate.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jul 6, 2018 17:36:43 GMT
exactly - I seem to recall a chap who really knew this market said he thought the items were vastly overvalued?
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 6, 2018 22:59:57 GMT
I know a bit about the art market, being an artist, and no I don't think the valuations are wrong. Similar works have sold for similar values. I did research at the time. The issue is - the loans are from the same borrower, had this been disclosed I would not have gone in, and more importantly, why aren't we seeing an auction of the works!!??
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Post by df on Jul 6, 2018 23:36:52 GMT
I know a bit about the art market, being an artist, and no I don't think the valuations are wrong. Similar works have sold for similar values. I did research at the time. The issue is - the loans are from the same borrower, had this been disclosed I would not have gone in, and more importantly, why aren't we seeing an auction of the works!!?? I wouldn't have done it if I knew. I would risk investing my usual amount in one or maximum two of them, not five. I think the reason for not auctioning them is the hope that borrower will repay. I don't know how much auctions charge (20% ), but as far as I remember reading breakdown of recovery priorities - FS is the first in line to suffer from extra costs.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Jul 7, 2018 9:39:57 GMT
I know a bit about the art market, being an artist, and no I don't think the valuations are wrong. Similar works have sold for similar values. I did research at the time. The issue is - the loans are from the same borrower, had this been disclosed I would not have gone in, and more importantly, why aren't we seeing an auction of the works!!?? I wouldn't have done it if I knew. I would risk investing my usual amount in one or maximum two of them, not five. I think the reason for not auctioning them is the hope that borrower will repay. I don't know how much auctions charge (20% ), but as far as I remember reading breakdown of recovery priorities - FS is the first in line to suffer from extra costs. Suffer! Oh please spare me..the only reason this situation has arisen has been their inability to conduct a risk based business with effective managerial oversight. Occasional defaults are unfortunately a fact in all walks of life but defaults exacerbated by multiple lending are inexcusable. In those instances, lenders have been invited to lend without the full facts. Strange isn't it, that they are now listing 'other' loans where applicable
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 7, 2018 18:39:30 GMT
I know a bit about the art market, being an artist, and no I don't think the valuations are wrong. Similar works have sold for similar values. I did research at the time. The issue is - the loans are from the same borrower, had this been disclosed I would not have gone in, and more importantly, why aren't we seeing an auction of the works!!?? Perhaps because a similar artwork loan was recently recently mishandled with gross negligence by FS, apparently failing to sell at auction and then was sold with a private negotiation at 14% of the original valuation price (yes FORTEEN PERCENT!), leaving lenders with a huge loss on what was presented as a very secure loan. Better to put pressure on the borrower to repay this with his own means or other sales rather than force a negligent auction. Which one was this/ which artist?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jul 8, 2018 7:09:56 GMT
I was in this one and to be fair to FS I think they were unlucky - the rubbish modern art market is a strange beast (I have worked in the industry) and subject to the personal whims of the overpaid chattering classes as much as anything else. Compared to other sold items by this chap the estimate may have been a bit generous but was not too unreasonable and I accept I took a risk and can't complain at around a 50% loss and was glad it was sold - that said bet this one is back on the market in 12 months time !
As far the property market - a totally different kettle of fish as land and property do have an intrinsic value. As to the ever growing list of property loan disasters I think FS have been,at best, grossly incompetent, they have clearly not validated developers claims about their true financial situation, accepted GRVs which are a joke and then suddendly find themselves in a sticky situation with the developer calling the shots.
A £10K loan for a painting is one thing £2m for a cinema is quite another!
I think the NI wind turbine is still the FS FA league winner with a capital loss of 69.5%(695K)- not that this won't soon be beaten
God job FS aren't managing England...
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jul 8, 2018 7:47:20 GMT
I wouldn't rule it out !
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 8, 2018 8:55:07 GMT
Which one was this/ which artist? Loan 2125032158 Thanks for that info. That is by a relatively unknown and unfashionable living artist. I would not at all mark the current loans along with this. He may be a good painter, but that does not mean much in the art world.
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 8, 2018 16:17:50 GMT
Thanks for that info. That is by a relatively unknown and unfashionable living artist. I would not at all mark the current loans along with this. He may be a good painter, but that does not mean much in the art world. That's why lending company should assign the valuation to an expert. FS guaranteed they did and the art expert valuation was 40k and yet the painting was sold for slightly more than 5k.... A painting by an unknown artist is not something I would take a gamble on. The price is what someone is willing to pay, not a market value.
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debaura
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Post by debaura on Jul 8, 2018 20:05:17 GMT
As I have said before, PH is 'unknown' ---- in comparison.... to Picasso.... etc which makes it the point. You may have heard of him but most people won't. £40k could be said to be a very spurious valuation, possibly based on the sale of a very few works which could have taken a long time to sell at a specific price...the main enemy to the price in the FS sale being time. With prestige works this is not an issue. There is not much of a comparison.
But yes indeed FS should have easily encountered the logic above.
There are so many instances of platforms making wild LTV claims, I have lost ALL money on 2 loans on another platform. Both of which had good security, director's guarantees and good LTV, but somehow I missed (it wasn't obvious) that my loans ranked last in the event of a default. Even in that instance others in the loans ahead of me also lost monies! I have various loans with other platforms that are basically 'lost' and have obviously been conducted on fraudulent bases, with borrowers and platforms negligent/ fraudulent and lenders ignorant or blind to the risks. There is definitely an 'old school club' at work.
You say 'If things are run honestly'. For me P2P has proved to be anything but honest, basically a den of thieves, but more or less like the rest of the financial gambling arena. Yes there are some great loans and projects. I am actually taking 90% of my money out and putting back into stock x.
I am waiting for the borrower to pay back the money + all the interest. That is a great outcome for me, but I am also reasonably confident that a sale of the works will prove fruitful. The longer is it left, the more interest accrues, the less chance there is of a full repayment. I don't think the art market is rising at 12+% or whatever the interest rate is. The borrower could easily let the loan run, BS FS for as long as possible (it is now 6 months overdue), while keeping the funds invested elsewhere earning X, until in their eyes the loan goes over. We don't even know what the loan is for!
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Jul 9, 2018 10:50:30 GMT
Without mentioning any particular loan or platform, it's become quite clear to me that fraud is rife in peer to peer borrowing. It's not just dodgy borrowers - it's brokers, it's valuations, it's solicitors (DP and his merry legal team anyone?) and I would not be even slightly surprised if some platforms were in on it as well, even if it's just by turning a blind eye to dodgy dealings so they can pocket huge fees.
Not long after I first started with peer to peer I remember one poster who listed fraud among the top risks, something I dismissed as a little OTT at the time, but now I think he was absolutely right. The only people who seem to lose when these borrows vanish with a huge pile of cash leaving little to show for it is us, the lenders.
For everybody else it's a win, and the temptations are enormous.
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