henryjford
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Post by henryjford on Mar 23, 2019 20:23:02 GMT
Does anyone have any reason to think that fs have anywhere near enough funds to compensate for this sort of loss? It’s a small tin pot outfit after all. I've had about 20 PM's about this loan and they all have the subject "art loans"!
There's two questions that need to be addressed: 1) Was there actionable misrepresentation on the loans? ie Did fundingsecure act deliberately and dishonestly in order to induce us into making a contract. 2) As a result of alleged actionable misrepresentation have we suffered a loss?
I can see no reason why question 1 can't be answered now. Question 2 will not be answered until at least July 31st 2019 however the borrower has been declared bankrupt and has no assets.
If the answer to 1 and 2 are both to the affirmative then I would expect to fundingsecure to compensate us for this loss. As a result they may well find it easier to make an offer now to avoid their liability increasing. I for one am livid about this. I pursue FS, with all diligence and I doff my cap to @mousey for their tireless and generous approach, irrespective of any unpredictable outcome. I am willing to all band together and will not lose the will to see a satisfactory outcome.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Mar 23, 2019 20:28:55 GMT
I suggest that we are in a cleft stick here, as with other similar situations on other P2P sites. By demanding restitution on this loan you stand to bring down the company taking all the other loans as well.....or do they carry some insurance to cover site collapse ?
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henryjford
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Post by henryjford on Mar 23, 2019 20:40:23 GMT
I suggest that we are in a cleft stick here, as with other similar situations on other P2P sites. By demanding restitution on this loan you stand to bring down the company taking all the other loans as well.....or do they carry some insurance to cover site collapse ? I do not see how your post has any value. Are you worried about your own loans? Well so am I, frankly I could care about the other loans.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Mar 23, 2019 20:48:50 GMT
I suggest that we are in a cleft stick here, as with other similar situations on other P2P sites. By demanding restitution on this loan you stand to bring down the company taking all the other loans as well.....or do they carry some insurance to cover site collapse ? I do not see how your post has any value. Are you worried about your own loans? Well so am I, frankly I could care about the other loans. Baby : Bathwater. You will end up with zero.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 23, 2019 21:15:27 GMT
There are several ways for the company to raise funds eg by issuing shares.
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henryjford
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Post by henryjford on Mar 23, 2019 21:30:17 GMT
There are several ways for the company to raise funds eg by issuing shares.
Thank you Mousey.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Mar 23, 2019 21:31:57 GMT
There are several ways for the company to raise funds eg by issuing shares.
hmm...…….. we did due diligence and were assured that the art was' under our hands' . A good example of how investors can be misled into believing that there were no weak threads. Hands up who is considering shares now? I do truly appreciate your diligence , but long experience leads me to take the broad view here, because the easiest route is to collapse the site and start another. It happens all the time.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 23, 2019 21:58:08 GMT
I take Travolta's view here. Partly because I don't like someone saying someone else's post doesn't add value - if it ain't nice and doesn't add value in and of itself, why say it?
Secondly because we _are_ in a cleft stick (I had to google it!). By taking action against FS for the money we might get something back but we might also end up bankrupting them.
Best solution IMO would be some kind of admission by FS and some kind of repayment from them probably by installments.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 23, 2019 22:03:07 GMT
There are several ways for the company to raise funds eg by issuing shares.
hmm...…….. we did due diligence and were assured that the art was' under our hands' . A good example of how investors can be misled into believing that there were no weak threads. Hands up who is considering shares now? I do truly appreciate your diligence , but long experience leads me to take the broad view here, because the easiest route is to collapse the site and start another. It happens all the time. Are you suggesting Raj Kumar was misled when he bought 75% of the company and shouldn't have done so?
Broad view - FS will not be in anyway forthcoming about the details of this case. They will rely (and have relied in their correspondence with me) on the conclusion of a High Court Judge that there was fraud involved to avoid making good their mistake. This is despite only one of the 9 facilities meeting the test for fraud and only because the artwork had already been pledged to another pawn broker; in fact in court FS submitted that the artwork in question was already stored in the bin ownen by the pawn broker and an employee of said broker accompanied the valuer to the 'bin' the artwork was stored in. Had FS made any attempt to hold the property in their bin the fraud would have been instantly revealed.
The only security held over the artwork was a contractual obligation placed upon the borrower as demonstrated by FS's claim to the court:
In his defence the borrower even stated that FS were aware he intended to sell them:
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Mar 23, 2019 22:29:35 GMT
Are you suggesting Raj Kumar was misled when he bought 75% of the company and shouldn't have done so?
I feel your pain. I'm only in for £500 and sold the rest of my loans in FS because they seemed unrealistic ventures. There can be many ways to avoid the obligations to borrowers and in this case I can see that FS will have two options. They can either keep quiet or fold the site . There's not much we can do either way. The FCA will wait it out. No one will bail us out here , but its an interesting case study.
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Mar 23, 2019 22:38:06 GMT
Sorry, for reasons already stated I do not believe there is only a binary option between no repayment to investors or the site 'folding'.
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Post by charliebrown on Mar 24, 2019 8:08:01 GMT
If we take Whitehaven as an example. There was clear fraud by the borrower and crystal clear negligence by FS. FS made no apology, no admission, offered no compensation. The outcome was to brush the sorry mess under the carpet and quickly move on. I suspect Art will follow the same route. My only thoughts are that BH with 6 figure sums in these loans are not likely to shrug their shoulders and move on without a fight. As someone else said FS might do secret deals with those Lenders but brush things under the carpet for the masses.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Mar 24, 2019 9:13:52 GMT
If we take Whitehaven as an example. There was clear fraud by the borrower and crystal clear negligence by FS. FS made no apology, no admission, offered no compensation. The outcome was to brush the sorry mess under the carpet and quickly move on. I suspect Art will follow the same route. My only thoughts are that BH with 6 figure sums in these loans are not likely to shrug their shoulders and move on without a fight. As someone else said FS might do secret deals with those Lenders but brush things under the carpet for the masses. All that is correct, clear fraud from the borrower and gross negligence by FS. But FS are not going to make any noise that looks like an admission that they were negligent and lenders were deceived as a result of FS negligence, there will be no apology. Compensation would need to be forced from FS, it will never be volunteered. They are of course kicking the whole sorry mess down the road by claiming to be trying to recover the money, and hell will freeze over before that happens but they will likely string this out for years. My own holding in that loan (tranche five, clearly deceived lenders) was a £1000, simply not enough for me to get excited about. Oh I might if somebody else was prepared to do the leg work and I might chip in on any costs, but I'm not spending hours and years chasing that and FS know it. As to the art loans, it would not surprise me at all if that did indeed turn out that way because very few are going to just write off six figure sums, they are going to be going to lawyers and rightly. The incompetence and negligence here is appalling and I am lied to repeatedly, be it borrowers lies passed on as fact or other lies, such as the promised update for Friday that never appeared though that's a minor lie in the great scheme of things. How anybody can trust this outfit any more than they can be thrown is beyond me and I'm still seeing money going out the door on an industrial scale with dribs and drabs coming back if the borrowers can be bothered. That's not sustainable.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Mar 24, 2019 12:25:35 GMT
Totally agree - allied with them being taken over by people who know what they are doing. As I see it any new owners won't want this art fiasco hanging over them and hopefully will reduce the buying price in order to settle this mess.
Personally I hope creditors get this loser to the UK where our American friends can extradite him and send him to a proper prison - I wonder if Daddy knows where the money from the sale of our art went although I don't doubt he could afford to visit his son in the USA!
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 24, 2019 12:32:08 GMT
Totally agree - allied with them being taken over by people who know what they are doing. As I see it any new owners won't want this art fiasco hanging over them and hopefully will reduce the buying price in order to settle this mess. Personally I hope creditors get this loser to the UK where our American friends can extradite him and send him to a proper prison - I wonder if Daddy knows where the money from the sale of our art went although I don't doubt he could afford to visit his son in the USA! Sorry probably being a bit slow but the buying price of what and how would its reduction resolve the current situation for lenders in these loans?
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