adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 12, 2020 10:01:01 GMT
I thought the entire loan book could have been sold off to a specialist and he could have decided what to do with such loans - guess too late now - we have been had by FS and the administrators aren't going to come out of this at a loss!
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Post by overthehill on Feb 12, 2020 11:39:17 GMT
No insight in this discussion except to say the decision by Administrators to sell off the entire loan book is not straightforward for anyone. If the final return turns out to be 70% of capital how would you feel if the Administrators just took the easy option and sold the whole loan book for 50% of outstanding capital. Just an example, I'm not saying these figures are realistic !!
The administrators are probably reckoning or hoping that borrowers realise that the stakes are higher now and if they have any actual security value in the loan they need to get it repaid. FS were getting played and had no meaningful client relationship with any of the late or unresponsive borrowers from what I could see.
I don't count multiple tranches or lower priority supplementals as unique loans. The actual outstanding unique loans on the date of Administration was 180 loans give or take, about 80 million in outstanding capital , not 360, so that is 1 loan every 2 days, still a tight schedule.
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Post by excalibur on Feb 12, 2020 12:55:44 GMT
Should the Administrator hand over the Art defaults to another Administrator who can focus on this for 12 months. Is the Administrator out of their depth with 400 loans and spreading their talent too thinly to do justice on the art loans?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 12, 2020 13:23:51 GMT
not pleased but would feel a lot better if they had been offered 60% for the loan book and we only got 50% returned after costs! As I said due to FS's egregious incompetence we are in such a mess then I think we just have to accept we have been had and make the best of a very bad job.
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Post by fsbloke on Feb 12, 2020 14:15:50 GMT
I'm really not quite sure why some investors are actively being critical of a decision that is/was not theirs to make. It was taken months ago before CG's appointment. All options prior to engagement would have been considered and discussed with the directors. The decision was to enter administration and not liquidation (i.e a fire sale). It was obviously felt, at the time, that there was sufficient quality in the loan book that a better outcome for creditors could be achieved by taking this route. It will all eventually end up in liquidation but that's some way off yet.
If you read the proposals (which few people do it seems) you will see the statutory requirements.
"They must perform their functions with the purpose of achieving one of the following: (a) Rescuing the company as a going concern (b) Achieving a better result for the creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in Administration) or (c) Realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors."
They went for (b). This allows for continued operation of the business and an opportunity to spend at least some time trying to maximise returns for both creditors and investors which would not have happened in liquidation.
At the end of the day they are appointed by the directors, although sometimes by the court. They are carrying out a very necessary function to clean this mess up and get back what they can. A quick "mop over" or on your hands and knees with a scrubbing brush. They went for the deep clean option.
There is no point bleating about it. This decision was never our's to make.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 12, 2020 17:18:54 GMT
or possibly not - he was well enough to leg it to Spain (there aren't any private doctors in London!) literally a few days before the FBI wanted a word with him and he was reported to be seen making sexual gestures towards Spanish woman in the street - although unbelievably creepy this doesn't like like somebody suffering from mental illness to me - besides he has had more than enough time to be "treated" now anyway - not exactly as if he saw his mates blown to pieces in Afghanistan is it!
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 12, 2020 17:56:42 GMT
I have 9 of these loans and I got 9 emails- well that points to a good IT system I don't think Hopefully after Friday we will get an answer to the following : 1) how much has been offered to FS to sell these litigation rights 2) how much has been spent to date by FS on legal action and will the litigation sale cover said expenses 3) how much of the profit will FS receive - I guess pursuing this muppet will be very expensive and would guess take a huge chunk out of any recovery - my thought are (based on exactly zero experience) are : FS get 70% which I think is highly unlikely and the legal cost is £1m to effect a recovery then that is £1.3m recovered x 70% £910K which is guess would be about 40% recovery - personally I agree this is the best option as I have budgeted for 0% recovery. But maybe the new litigant could get court costs - now that would be a result. I note this litigation has been offered to we investors - would love it if one of us took it one but sadly way out of my budget! I have several of this loans and no emails yet... I'm in the same boat. I've stopped getting email updates.
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Feb 12, 2020 22:11:34 GMT
The administrators have one task - to wind down the company with around 400 outstanding loans in a 1-year time frame. They will not engage in lengthy and costly lawsuits to recover one single loan so selling this debt to a third-party is the best you can hope for. It is very unfortunate it came to this, but that is how things stand. If this is the case then why do the administrators not just sell off the entire loan book to a 'recovery' expert. Come to think of it, if somebody else is better placed to recover the debt, why were they not put in charge in the first place.
If you were raking in £500 an hour, how quick would you be to sell off the entire loanbook and make yourself obsolete? They will handle the redemption of the less problematic loans, collect their £500 an hour + 2.5% of the recovered amount + VAT, and flog the more problematic loans such as this one to someone else. Can you really blame them for behaving perfectly rationally and adhering to the 80/20 rule? I would bite off your hand for a 50% return on the outstanding capital ! Especially if it could bring a quick and easy resolution to this situation.
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Post by excalibur on Feb 13, 2020 0:28:22 GMT
You must be joking. 50% will not satisfy me.
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Post by spareapennyor2 on Feb 13, 2020 5:27:37 GMT
Sadly these loans will be pennies in the pound at best As for FS loanbook expect it to be bottom of COL/LDY persentage recovered P2P has been a expensive for all
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coop
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Post by coop on Feb 13, 2020 9:55:30 GMT
I honestly wish this nerk as much suffering as humanly possible. Someone get him Epsteined pronto!!
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 13, 2020 10:03:11 GMT
If this is the case then why do the administrators not just sell off the entire loan book to a 'recovery' expert. Come to think of it, if somebody else is better placed to recover the debt, why were they not put in charge in the first place.
If you were raking in £500 an hour, how quick would you be to sell off the entire loanbook and make yourself obsolete? They will handle the redemption of the less problematic loans, collect their £500 an hour + 2.5% of the recovered amount + VAT, and flog the more problematic loans such as this one to someone else. Can you really blame them for behaving perfectly rationally and adhering to the 80/20 rule? I would bite off your hand for a 50% return on the outstanding capital ! Especially if it could bring a quick and easy resolution to this situation. A bit different view if 50% = £50 and 50%=£100000
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 13, 2020 10:32:51 GMT
exactly - just glad I haven't got £200K with these muppets...
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Feb 13, 2020 11:57:44 GMT
You must be joking. 50% will not satisfy me. Whether or not 50% return will satisfy you is largely irrelevant. The reality is that, after the dust settles and admin and legal costs are subtracted, investors will likely get far less than 50% of the capital back, possibly several years down the line. At that point the prospect of getting half the capital back in early 2020 might have a different appeal.
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Feb 13, 2020 12:06:01 GMT
In my case 50% would be around 5k,just fyi. The absolute amounts do not matter that much though. If I have an opinion that the investors will get less than 50% back, then getting exactly half is a good outcome. Since you probably expect full capital plus compound interest back, 50% is terrible for you.
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