benaj
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Post by benaj on Jun 29, 2018 13:57:32 GMT
I have £3 invested in the GEA since late Dec'17. So far it has earned 9p interest, the smallest interest part is £1 x 10^(-10), or 0.00000001p.
You quoted me but haven't given your position - would you like to donate these? These can never be realized by individual investors, pooling these may produce something tangible to hopefully benefit someone / something else. The thing is, I don't think it will benefit in real terms. AC only has 28k investors, 0.00000001p x 28k = 0.00028p, you can't donate 0.00028p. Taking loan book has less than 1000 loans, can't even make 1p together. In other platforms, we usually see money less than £10 invested in a single loan, and this is not the case with AC. My £3 in the GEA is diversified into 12 different businesses, but 3 of them are <1p.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jun 29, 2018 13:59:20 GMT
I'd rather AC stopped allocating ridiculously tiny fractions of a penny Why? That's the price of a fair allocation system. Much rather that than long sales queues or FFF systems. I agree that a fair allocation system is a good idea, and that FFF is to be avoided. But I'm not convinced that the femto-penny loan parts are an inevitable consequence, certainly not in the quantity in which they appeared in my GBBA2 account while I had one. In that case, the tiny parts were being produced by the recently-introduced post-purchase diversification algorithm, which swaps parts to improve everyone's balance: that could surely easily be throttled back so as not to create sub £1 chunks at the point of swap without adversely affecting anyone. Sure, those £1 chunks may amortise downwards, but you'd at least be dealing in whole pennies right up to the end.
And as for this being OCD (another poster) - no, there is a potential significant pain here, which is that with massive diversification into microscopic loans you make it very highly probable that at least one loan will go bad for a period of time which means that you can't close the account should you want to move away.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 29, 2018 14:01:08 GMT
If you have a £1 investment and there is a 3.5p principal repayment on an amortising loan, what happens to the 3.5p? You would no longer be earning interest on your £1 but on £0.965, so what is displayed to lenders and what is available for you to sell on the aftermarket. If you can only sell £1 chunks then you end up being unable to sell your loan unit at all. Simple, you can sell a minimum of £1, unless you hold less, when you can sell that amount. You can only buy in increments of £1, so if yours is the only sale offer, you will have to wait until the amount on offer is >£1. The part principal repayment is held until you have at least £1, to buy again. I think the cash drag on (an average 50p) is not going to materially alter anyones returns. There are much more important things to improve on the AC platform. Why on earth are people bothered about fractions of a penny? it's just looking for something to complain about!
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 29, 2018 14:04:28 GMT
Why? That's the price of a fair allocation system. Much rather that than long sales queues or FFF systems. I agree that a fair allocation system is a good idea, and that FFF is to be avoided. But I'm not convinced that the femto-penny loan parts are an inevitable consequence, certainly not in the quantity in which they appeared in my GBBA2 account while I had one. In that case, the tiny parts were being produced by the recently-introduced post-purchase diversification algorithm, which swaps parts to improve everyone's balance: that could surely easily be throttled back so as not to create sub £1 chunks at the point of swap without adversely affecting anyone. Sure, those £1 chunks may amortise downwards, but you'd at least be dealing in whole pennies right up to the end.
And as for this being OCD (another poster) - no, there is a potential significant pain here, which is that with massive diversification into microscopic loans you make it very highly probable that at least one loan will go bad for a period of time which means that you can't close the account should you want to move away.
you can close it except for the nanopennies left behind - what's the issue? And these are auto accounts anyway - the point is to just leave them alone, otherwise use the MLIA.
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Jun 29, 2018 15:21:51 GMT
Many of us have commented on micro-loans that clutter our loanbook that will never pay interest, and cannot be sold. (http://p2pindependentforum.com/post/274447) Could Assetz consider pooling all these loans (on an opt-in basis) from lenders into a charitable pot? I think I can safety say no one will miss these sub 1p loans, but pooled together (especially if you can claim tax credits too), this could end up contributing to a life changing sum for a charity or other good cause. I'd love to be able to donate my sub 1< parts to this, and never see them in my loanbook again. Am I out of turn suggesting this on an opt-in basis and if there is a consensus for such a move, would Assetz consider implementing it? it would require a system re-write. The micro-pennies may be difficult to understand, but that is the way the Assetz system works. A noble thought I suppose, though many charities these days have been discredited or are politically biased. Better to drop a few quid into the remembrance day collection tin.
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Jun 29, 2018 15:30:29 GMT
Great idea. Would also need to be tied to a system change to eliminate these micro loan parts. A move to a minimum £1 per loan would be welcome. How does that work with capital repayments? What would the System Development cost? System testing? Legal and tax implications? Accounting considerations? Administration costs between Assetz and the charity? A back valued procedure to reverse the "account skimming" in case of a client dispute.  What would happen to small amounts in the QAA, MLIA account? The MLIA diversification might get into a loop, donating micropennies, then purchasing micropennies of the same loan! And how would my excel spreadsheets handle the account skimming. 
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puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Jun 29, 2018 16:28:36 GMT
Simple, you can sell a minimum of £1, unless you hold less, when you can sell that amount. You can only buy in increments of £1, so if yours is the only sale offer, you will have to wait until the amount on offer is >£1. The part principal repayment is held until you have at least £1, to buy again. I think the cash drag on (an average 50p) is not going to materially alter anyones returns. There are much more important things to improve on the AC platform. Why on earth are people bothered about fractions of a penny? it's just looking for something to complain about! The purpose of this thread is not to complain, it's to hopefully make a difference. My property company regularly uses Screwfix, there is a an option to round-up ie £29.99 to £30 for charitable donations which I always do - yes, pennies on their own do not make a difference, but summed up they do. There is no agenda behind this thread whatsoever. Hoping a few of us can make a small difference, and if the demand is there Assetz might assist. That's it - do not read anything into this other than the title of the thread. Thanks.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 29, 2018 16:36:57 GMT
The MLIA deals in nano-pennies (actually rather smaller units!) too.
Personally I prefer the Unbolted system where 'anything too small' is dished out by some pseudo-random algorithm, such that nothing gets sliced finer than £5 (initially), although £1 would be OK too. Makes for a lot fewer transactions, if you randomly get to buy £5 once in a blue moon, rather than getting nano/pico/femto pence every half hour.
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dc848
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Post by dc848 on Jun 29, 2018 16:37:34 GMT
Nicely summed up. Its a silly idea, totally non practical, wouldnt raise anything worthwhile to anyone. Basically, completely non feasible. Also, some of us 28k investors might just plain not like the OP idea. But thanks for the offer.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 29, 2018 16:59:10 GMT
The thing is, I don't think it will benefit in real terms. AC only has 28k investors, 0.00000001p x 28k = 0.00028p, you can't donate 0.00028p. Taking loan book has less than 1000 loans, can't even make 1p together. That's easily solved. Have the charity of choice open an account on AC and donate into that - I understand they are able to trade down to femto pence. :-)
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puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Jun 29, 2018 17:03:06 GMT
Folks - I've asked the admins to kill this thread, it was posted with the best of intentions, and is clearly workable if the will is there, but there is no will and lots 'too difficults' or seen as some sort of dig as AC then I'd rather it was killed off.
Thanks to anyone who thought it was a good idea!
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 29, 2018 17:16:01 GMT
Folks - I've asked the admins to kill this thread, it was posted with the best of intentions, and is clearly workable if the will is there, but there is no will and lots 'too difficults' or seen as some sort of dig as AC then I'd rather it was killed off. Thanks to anyone who thought it was a good idea! Any user can delete a thread they create so long as no one else posts in it, as soon as someone else makes a comment in thread the only thing the op can do is delete their opening post but this has no effect on the rest of the thread, it just makes it slightly confusing.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 1, 2018 9:21:40 GMT
Has something changed in the last year? I have no sub 1p loan parts. When I put something up for sale I offer at least 1p more (sometimes £1 more) than I hold and eventually my entire holding is sold. Or is this a problem with non MLIA accounts?
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jul 1, 2018 17:06:44 GMT
Has something changed in the last year? I have no sub 1p loan parts. When I put something up for sale I offer at least 1p more (sometimes £1 more) than I hold and eventually my entire holding is sold. Or is this a problem with non MLIA accounts? This is mainly a problem with the non MLIA accounts (actually, not QAA/30DAA as you don't really care about your loan parts there), especially since they introduced the new rebalancing process which seeks to make everyone (approximately) equally diversified - they've been swapping tiny loan parts without a lower limit, which seems silly to me.
It could still happen in the MLIA, but it's less likely. Say there's a loan with a hundred people trying to buy, but no sellers. Then someone, who'd only got a small share (£1, say), puts it up for sale.
So a hundred people get 1p each.
One of them is later selling out and so sells their 1p - now everyone gets 0.01p. If you'd recently joined the party, that's all you'd have...
At least, that's how I understand it...
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tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Aug 10, 2018 13:08:06 GMT
I have about 30 loans, all up for sale, all less than 0.01, all at 99.5% discount, some where the availablilty is zero, for a few days and not a single one has sold. AC is just so random. Ditto.
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