pfffill
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Post by pfffill on Jul 31, 2021 11:55:33 GMT
Duplicate post
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jul 31, 2021 14:09:49 GMT
Borrower never paid any interest to renew these loans and that Interest which has been paid to Investors in the Italian Books historically, totalling almost £1.8m was paid from FundingSecure’s own funds pre Administration about the only good news in this I wonder how that was allocated then..because ive never received a penny. However, ive just thought..didn't these loans go back a long way..maybe I caught a renewal ?As for smelling something..it's an extremely 'in-depth' response...almost like a used car salesman's pitch They went back to, as far as I can tell, April 2014 with eight 'separate' loans in total (and 46 renewals between them) ending up with six outstanding loans totalling £1.225 million. I've popped a table at the end of the post with the loan dates and details on. Those remaining 6 loans are split across three 'charges': 1st: £525k / 2nd: £600k / 3rd: £325k (was £375k). This is, to my mind, anyway largely irrelevant. I'm reading CG's statement around FS' historic covering of Borrower interest - where they write: " and given the Borrower’s bankruptcy there is no prospect of the recovery of these sums either." - to mean the Borrower's outstanding interest payment are an arrears against the loans and will therefore be taken from the sale proceeds. Not that there will be much in the way of proceeds. There is, I believe, an incomplete portion to the update which begins: " Historical storage fees which had been paid by FundingSecure direct prior to Administration" but doesn't complete. I suspect that the sentence is intended to indicate that storage costs since Administration commenced will need to be deducted from the sale amount; this probably amounts to 20m @ £2.5k +VAT = £60k. Then there's the various inspections, appraisals and valuations which will further eat into the sale proceeds. What I don't understand is how CG get their £1.8m figure. Totalling the interest paid figures in the table below gives a figure a little over £700k. It's possible my records are incomplete but I don't think they are to the extent which would explain the discrepancy. I'm left wondering if CG are seeing figures for each of the loans' redemption amounts - so includes FS' interest and fees (storage, etc). chg | ref | title | int_rate | loan_amt | ltv | active_for | int_paid | made_active | completed | 1st | 213934824 | Antique books | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 187 days | £35,076.91 | 09/04/14 | 13/10/14 | 1st | 642838491 | Italian Books | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 179 days | £33,470.70 | 13/10/14 | 10/04/15 | 1st | 2989657510 | Italian Book Collection | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 173 days | £32,348.47 | 10/04/15 | 30/09/15 | 1st | 1378461147 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 187 days | £34,966.66 | 30/09/15 | 04/04/16 | 1st | 1426223516 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 181 days | £36,485.02 | 31/03/16 | 28/09/16 | 1st | 2026996867 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 182 days | £38,095.02 | 28/09/16 | 29/03/17 | 1st | 1389721182 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 184 days | £34,405.63 | 29/03/17 | 29/09/17 | 1st | 1927104403 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 185 days | £40,749.32 | 29/09/17 | 02/04/18 | 1st | 1461997187 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | 192 days | £42,214.11 | 02/04/18 | 11/10/18 | 1st | 2572470208 | Italian Book Collection - Renewal | 13.00% | £525,000.00 | 17.50% | |
| 03/10/18 | null | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | 2nd | 1563020812 | Italian Books - Being Renewed | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 183 days | £10,754.45 | 15/12/14 | 16/06/15 | 2nd | 9306694194 | Italian Library | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 216 days | £14,238.32 | 16/06/15 | 18/01/16 | 2nd | 5377678458 | Italian Library | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 178 days | £11,630.80 | 18/01/16 | 14/07/16 | 2nd | 1547083741 | Italian Library - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 47.50% | 187 days | £12,394.91 | 14/07/16 | 17/01/17 | 2nd | 6276415870 | Italian Library - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 189 days | £12,526.05 | 17/01/17 | 25/07/17 | 2nd | 9255771436 | Italian Library - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 37.50% | 158 days | £9,993.31 | 25/07/17 | 30/12/17 | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | 2nd | 2037484290 | Italian Books | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 182 days | £10,695.53 | 16/01/15 | 17/07/15 | 2nd | 2481106893 | Italian Books | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 188 days | £12,232.82 | 17/07/15 | 21/01/16 | 2nd | 2493954469 | Italian Books | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 183 days | £11,827.41 | 21/01/16 | 22/07/16 | 2nd | 2922392396 | Italian Books - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 5.50% | 187 days | £11,954.10 | 22/07/16 | 25/01/17 | 2nd | 8368561065 | Italian Books - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 38.00% | 191 days | £12,304.16 | 25/01/17 | 04/08/17 | 2nd | 1356190759 | Italian Books - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 37.50% | 185 days | £11,965.54 | 04/08/17 | 05/02/18 | 2nd | 1901605367 | Italian Books - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 32.00% | 187 days | £12,070.31 | 05/02/18 | 11/08/18 | 2nd | 1674251397 | Italian Books - Renewal | 13.00% | £165,000.00 | 30.00% | |
| 11/08/18 | null | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | 2nd | 2045174533 | Italian Library 3rd tranche | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 3.33% | 183 days | £6,517.91 | 16/03/15 | 15/09/15 | 2nd | 1869894480 | Italian Library 3rd tranche | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 3.33% | 183 days | £7,120.56 | 15/09/15 | 17/03/16 | 2nd | 1050476333 | Italian Library 3rd tranche | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 3.33% | 187 days | £7,276.25 | 16/03/16 | 19/09/16 | 2nd | 2321764953 | Italian Library 2nd loan 3rd tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 37.50% | 182 days | £6,950.08 | 19/09/16 | 20/03/17 | 2nd | 7521777331 | Italian Library 2nd loan 3rd tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 37.50% | 183 days | £7,019.43 | 20/03/17 | 19/09/17 | 2nd | 2796851703 | Italian Library 2nd loan 3rd tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 37.50% | 183 days | £6,718.81 | 19/09/17 | 21/03/18 | 2nd | 2463365466 | Italian Library 2nd loan 3rd tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 32.00% | 189 days | £6,938.66 | 21/03/18 | 26/09/18 | 2nd | 8947265247 | Italian Library 2nd loan 3rd tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £100,000.00 | 30.00% | |
| 26/09/18 | null | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | 2nd | 6345967286 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 3.67% | 183 days | £7,169.70 | 13/04/15 | 13/10/15 | 2nd | 2850211184 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal - 6345967286 | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 3.67% | 183 days | £7,671.16 | 13/10/15 | 13/04/16 | 2nd | 1695706033 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 3.67% | 185 days | £7,754.30 | 13/04/16 | 15/10/16 | 2nd | 2265750120 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal - Renewal | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 3.67% | 185 days | £7,903.35 | 15/10/16 | 18/04/17 | 2nd | 7140590766 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 37.50% | 188 days | £8,110.82 | 18/04/17 | 23/10/17 | 2nd | 1702548168 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 37.50% | 184 days | £7,960.00 | 23/10/17 | 25/04/18 | 2nd | 7277943702 | Italian Books - 4th Tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £110,000.00 | 30.00% | |
| 25/04/18 | null | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | 2nd | 2224713328 | Italian Library - Final Tranche | 13.00% | £60,000.00 | 2.00% | 183 days | £3,910.84 | 25/09/15 | 26/03/16 | 2nd | 1634698037 | Italian Library - Final Tranche | 13.00% | £60,000.00 | 2.00% | 180 days | £3,955.06 | 26/03/16 | 22/09/16 | 2nd | 8641087631 | Italian Library - Final Tranche - Renewal | 13.00% | £60,000.00 | 2.00% | 184 days | £4,064.44 | 22/09/16 | 25/03/17 | 2nd | 3979591112 | Italian Library - Second Facility - Renewal | 13.00% | £60,000.00 | 37.50% | 188 days | £4,015.81 | 25/03/17 | 29/09/17 | 2nd | 8558817075 | Italian Library - Second Facility - Renewal | 13.00% | £60,000.00 | 37.50% | 183 days | £4,061.25 | 29/09/17 | 31/03/18 | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | 3rd | 2956600180 | Italian Library Supplemental | 14.00% | £300,000.00 | 50.00% | 185 days | £22,943.29 | 20/05/16 | 21/11/16 | 3rd | 3076549633 | Italian Library Supplemental - Renewal | 14.00% | £300,000.00 | 10.00% | 182 days | £22,709.93 | 21/11/16 | 22/05/17 | 3rd | 9845625635 | Italian Library Supplemental - Renewal | 14.00% | £300,000.00 | 50.00% | 189 days | £23,334.90 | 22/05/17 | 27/11/17 | 3rd | 1652600934 | Italian Library Supplemental - Partial repayment | 13.00% | £250,000.00 | 48.30% | 184 days | £17,732.84 | 27/11/17 | 30/05/18 | 3rd | 2064028675 | Italian Library Supplemental - Renewal | 13.00% | £250,000.00 | 40.80% | |
| 30/05/18 | null | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | ----- | 3rd | 2990041511 | Italian Library Supplemental Final Tranche | 14.00% | £75,000.00 | 50.00% | 186 days | £5,447.55 | 01/09/16 | 06/03/17 | 3rd | 8818978918 | Italian Library Supplemental Final Tranche - Renewal | 14.00% | £75,000.00 | 50.00% | 183 days | £5,377.84 | 06/03/17 | 05/09/17 | 3rd | 2353801340 | Italian Library Supplemental Final Tranche - Renewal | 14.00% | £75,000.00 | 50.00% | 184 days | £5,359.72 | 05/09/17 | 08/03/18 | 3rd | 1459544000 | Italian Library Supplemental Final Tranche - Renewal | 14.00% | £75,000.00 | 42.80% | 188 days | £5,481.72 | 08/03/18 | 12/09/18 | 3rd | 1076051421 | Italian Library Supplemental Final Tranche - Renewal | 14.00% | £75,000.00 | 40.80% | |
| 12/09/18 | null | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== | ==== |
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jul 31, 2021 14:34:19 GMT
Lenders were told the borrower had paid the interest, giving the false impression that the borrower also believed the valuation. This lead to people lending having been given completely false information by FS and FS knew it was false. Meanwhile, either the security was never what it was claimed to be or it was plundered while supposedly kept secure. People need to go to prison here.Sorry, can't resist:
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Mucho P2P
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Post by Mucho P2P on Jul 31, 2021 15:04:28 GMT
Is the borrower not liable for fraud on this as he must have signed papers saying he had repaid some of the loan and so purposefully mislead the lenders ? Its not so much the borrower, as the director(s) who arranged it, AND misled the lenders in falsely stating that the loan was being repaid by the borrower, when it was not. The fact that so much interest was repaid by FS to the lenders, instead of being repaid by the borrower, could only have had the effect of diminishing the balance sheet of FS, and being one of the causes of FS demise! Thereby affecting everyone who lent via FS, not only those who lent to the Italian Library!
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jul 31, 2021 17:28:03 GMT
The FS Goons belong in jail.
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rookey123
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Post by rookey123 on Jul 31, 2021 18:59:21 GMT
I would happily contribute to any legal fund that may have any chance of jailing these twats. It is so clearly way through incompetence and into criminal action.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jul 31, 2021 23:20:34 GMT
We don't know if the borrower actually received all the money from the secondary loans. It is possible that the directors fabricated some or all the secondary loans in order to pay the interest.
I also suspect that the high cost of storage (£2,500 +VAT per month) will include insurance. My understanding is that the directors and nobody else had access to the storage, without a director present. If some books have gone missing then the administrators should have informed the police.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 1, 2021 9:35:05 GMT
very true - clearly something horrendous and probably illegal has gone on here - one has to wonder what exactly was the relation (if any) between FS and this borrower - yes the secondary loans could have been a con for FS to generate funds - hate to think how much this forensic accounting is costing us! Maybe the books were owned by FS ? Goodness knows only thing we do know is that FS have not exactly told us the entire truth about this one!
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sb
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Post by sb on Aug 1, 2021 14:31:18 GMT
Thanks God we have FCA making sure that financial investment in the UK is regulated and free from fraud.
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Post by df on Aug 1, 2021 21:27:42 GMT
Thanks God we have FCA making sure that financial investment in the UK is regulated and free from fraud. FS was one of the first p2p platform to receive full authorisation and available for IFISA. Well done FCA!
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Post by df on Aug 1, 2021 22:04:32 GMT
10/05/2019 - "As previously advised the borrower is expecting a large business deal to be completed shortly that will return sufficient funds to repay this loan in full. As this has been delayed they have committed to paying the interest to renew the loan. With their major funds already being committed to completing the large business deal they have agreed a sale of an asset (artwork) to provide funds to pay the interim interest. Once funds are received the loan will be renewed."
It will be very interesting to know more about relationship between FS and the "library" borrower and what "artwork" did they have in store for this proposal. Why would FS want to pay interest for renewing somebody's loan and going as far as composing pretend updates to investors? May be one day we'll have a full story. So far the "ItalianBooks" affair sounds very dodgy.
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kielbasa
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Post by kielbasa on Aug 3, 2021 15:43:54 GMT
Some of you have referred to the borrower as "he".
However, the borrower is female.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Aug 3, 2021 17:26:31 GMT
We don't know if the borrower actually received all the money from the secondary loans. It is possible that the directors fabricated some or all the secondary loans in order to pay the interest. I also suspect that the high cost of storage (£2,500 +VAT per month) will include insurance. My understanding is that the directors and nobody else had access to the storage, without a director present. If some books have gone missing then the administrators should have informed the police. My understanding is that the directors and nobody else had access to the storage, without a director present. If some books have gone missing then the administrators should have informed the police.
I believe that is the yarn FS spun but:- I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here (wont be the first time) and I cant produce any tangible proof but I seem to recall reading a statement or comment somewhere in the distant past to the effect..access was (legally or illegally ) gained to the store by an individual/s by bluff. Or maybe that was another spoof spun by FS themselves Sorry if that is Blytonesque..but the thought wont leave my head.
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pfffill
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Post by pfffill on Aug 4, 2021 3:07:12 GMT
Some of you have referred to the borrower as "he". However, the borrower is female. In view of events now known, I shall in future refer to whoever it is as 'it', without prejudice.
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Post by beepbeepimajeep on Jun 21, 2023 12:19:40 GMT
After the art loans this is my biggest exposure left on FS. Seems the possibility of anything back from it is remote? What is the hold up in just closing up these loans with the final amounts? Honestly reading this thread is mind blowing, and I thought I already had my mind blown a million times with what was gotten up to on Funding Secure.
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