sydb
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Post by sydb on Aug 28, 2018 14:24:38 GMT
Yep, I was sleeping when they made the changes in June and didn't pay close enough attention to the massive impact their so called 'simplification' had on the rolling investment product if you were passively investing. Actually, I was too busy with work to pay much attention and only now have caught up with the changes they have made. It seems to me, that they more or less fixed everyone's existing rolling investments to the May rolling market rate of about 2.8% for the next few years (or whatever the average rolling rate was during May), though I realise it is not that simple. What used to be effectively a SIMPLE market driven rate 30-day notice account has been mutated into some kind of fixed rate variable length account where you're stuffed if you put your money in at the wrong time. Effectively, they have penalised the hands off investor.
Quote from the RS notice regarding 'rolling' investment, "your investments remain matched for the full term of the loans which gives you certainty of rate for longer". If you want that then you invest in the 1yr or 5yr market; you wouldn't choose the rolling market. Do they expect anyone to take them seriously? At least they are bringing back the facility to set the rate of investment for new investments - hey, maybe we could call that 'rate setting'. Kind of sounds familiar. Oh, yeah, it's their name!
Maybe I'm the last to realise this but I don't expect so given that Ratesetter would have been the choice for many because it used to be a very hands off P2P method. So can anybody point me to the details of how the RYI is supposed to work? Does it actually require others to pick up your crappy rate loans before you can withdraw the money or is it still the case that you can get your money back within 30days from when you RYI?
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Aug 28, 2018 14:43:08 GMT
So can anybody point me to the details of how the RYI is supposed to work? Does it actually require others to pick up your crappy rate loans before you can withdraw the money? It's starting to sound like Lendy. What an insult. It's a bit of a mystery, but it does not require RS to find another lender to take on the loan you are selling at the same rate. If it did, then none of my recent RYI's would have been able to happen, but they all have, mostly within seconds.
If you RYI a loan while the market rates are higher, then RS take the hit. I doubt they make a loss, but they make less profit than they otherwise would have done.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on Aug 28, 2018 14:53:56 GMT
Thanks for that. What you say is encouraging.
"Access: You can request to release your reinvestment anytime, free of charge. Normally, investments are instantly released from funds rolling in the market. However, this isn't like an instant access bank account so it's possible that you will have to wait for the monthly repayments."
Mmm, monthly repayments but for how many months? If RS have just tied your rolling investments to long term loans then could you have to wait for all the monthly repayments i.e. maybe 5yrs? I'm hoping they just mean you may have to wait the maximum of a month (i.e. the end of all your current contracts).
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Aug 28, 2018 14:58:11 GMT
... or is it still the case that you can get your money back within 30days from when you RYI?
When you RYI, your loan is sold and you get your money quickly. This can only be done if there is lender money available to replace yours -- there is no guarantee of this, but historically it has usually (or even "always") been true. Sometimes your freed-up funds are available in seconds; or it can take several hours (like today).
On Rolling, it used to be that you could instead wait for the repayment when the loan terminated, up to a month away, and then have your money in full. This is no longer true. When you receive the monthly repayment, RS now automatically reinvests it. You can do things to reduce the amount that is automatically reinvested, but generally speaking in most cases most of the repayment gets reinvested. So RYI is the only way to get back the full amount of a Rolling loan.
Without RYI, you will indeed have to wait the full length of the loan before you will have received all your money back.
I think you are unduly concerned that RYI is not going to work for you, and you need not worry. I believe the current slow pace is purely down to a lot of processing happening from the long weekend. It's always like this on RS after a bank holiday. The payment runs on the 5 Year market haven't even completed yet.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on Aug 28, 2018 15:53:35 GMT
Thank you, Stonk. I understand how you are telling me it works. What I am concerned about is how RS says it works: "Access is always subject to us being able to transfer your loan contracts to another investor."
Is a month the maximum one would have to wait from time of RYI to get all your rolling money back regardless of what any other investor is doing? (Assuming any losses are covered by provision fund.)
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Aug 28, 2018 16:05:00 GMT
Thank you, Stonk. I understand how you are telling me it works. What I am concerned about is how RS says it works: "Access is always subject to us being able to transfer your loan contracts to another investor."
Is a month the maximum one would have to wait from time of RYI to get all your rolling money back regardless of what any other investor is doing? (Assuming any losses are covered by provision fund.)
The "wait a month" stuff and the RYI process are not related.
"Wait a month" used to be the default way to get your money returned on Rolling. These days, "wait a month" gets you a (likely small) portion of your money back. I think the documentation needs updating.
When you RYI, there are either lenders willing to replace you, or not, and this will determine whether the RYI succeeds. It will do so within a much shorter timeframe than a month. A 24-hour wait would be highly unusual, in my experience.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Aug 28, 2018 16:26:31 GMT
"Wait a month" was always under normal market conditions (which has always been the case to date). The small print has always stated that another investor needs to take the loan on if you wanted your money back (even with the old mechanism where you were repaid each month) so one month loans always had the potential to be held for longer in atypical conditions.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on Aug 28, 2018 22:38:57 GMT
Ok, that's my misunderstanding, thanks. I've had about 60% released about 24hrs on. I guess it was a bank holiday and lots of weirdness has been going on with their rates today.
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upland
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Post by upland on Aug 29, 2018 7:23:37 GMT
How long does a RYI typically take at the moment? Anybody just done it? I made a withdrawal (RYI) early this morning, still no sign of it being released. Getting concerned that they are having difficulty finding another fool to take it on at the rate I was suckered into when the Rolling market rules changed BiscuitI made one yesterday and it has not yet happened , I thought that I must have not pressed the right buttons. Good to hear that I am not the only one waiting.
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Post by fiatlender on Aug 29, 2018 8:04:05 GMT
People that have done RYI in the morning usually have to wait for RS to process this and that usually happens around 11:30am. RS may have postponed this for a day due to yesterday's mayhem on the markets. After the 11:30am 'run', RYI usually happens almost immediately when you try.
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Post by warwickshirelad on Aug 29, 2018 8:19:28 GMT
I made a withdrawal (RYI) early this morning, still no sign of it being released. Getting concerned that they are having difficulty finding another fool to take it on at the rate I was suckered into when the Rolling market rules changed BiscuitI made one yesterday and it has not yet happened , I thought that I must have not pressed the right buttons. Good to hear that I am not the only one waiting. If you go back into the RYI screen where you request a quote, if you have a request pending it will show on the right hand side under a column labelled 'Pending Request'. This will confirm if you have pressed the right buttons.
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lara
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Post by lara on Aug 29, 2018 8:44:45 GMT
Yep, I was sleeping when they made the changes in June and didn't pay close enough attention to the massive impact their so called 'simplification' had on the rolling investment product if you were passively investing. Actually, I was too busy with work to pay much attention and only now have caught up with the changes they have made. It seems to me, that they more or less fixed everyone's existing rolling investments to the May rolling market rate of about 2.8% for the next few years (or whatever the average rolling rate was during May), though I realise it is not that simple. What used to be effectively a SIMPLE market driven rate 30-day notice account has been mutated into some kind of fixed rate variable length account where you're stuffed if you put your money in at the wrong time. Effectively, they have penalised the hands off investor.
Quote from the RS notice regarding 'rolling' investment, "your investments remain matched for the full term of the loans which gives you certainty of rate for longer". If you want that then you invest in the 1yr or 5yr market; you wouldn't choose the rolling market. Do they expect anyone to take them seriously? At least they are bringing back the facility to set the rate of investment for new investments - hey, maybe we could call that 'rate setting'. Kind of sounds familiar. Oh, yeah, it's their name!
Maybe I'm the last to realise this but I don't expect so given that Ratesetter would have been the choice for many because it used to be a very hands off P2P method. So can anybody point me to the details of how the RYI is supposed to work? Does it actually require others to pick up your crappy rate loans before you can withdraw the money or is it still the case that you can get your money back within 30days from when you RYI?
I only found out by accident myself as they buried the information rather than making an obvious announcement. I removed 99.9% of my investment before the changes because I could only see them resulting in lower rates and as you point out, if I had wanted to invest for years, I would have chosen one of the other markets! If you enjoy the hands off approach, have a look at Assetz Capital quick access and 30 day access accounts, that's where many of the disgruntled rate setters have ended up.
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sydb
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Post by sydb on Aug 29, 2018 14:37:32 GMT
All RYI processed now. Thanks, Stonk. Thanks for an alternative, lara. Once you understand how the new rolling account works, and the need for RYI if you need to extract your money, then perhaps it is ok. Perhaps you just need to set everything to holding account and login more frequently; or soon just set the reinvestment rate. What I didn't like is the way they made it out to be a minor change for the benefit of the investor when it was actually a massive change and more or less fixed every investors rolling loans to 2.8% for an average of 2yrs. What I will probably do is switch more funds to the 5yr account if I get a decent rate. 1.5% penalty on a 6% rate means 3months interest penalty for a year's investment (or the equivalent of 4.5%). If you can get a very good rate in rolling then great. It seems to me that it's all about predicting when you want to access your money now and working out how much penalty RYI represents compared to the duration of your investment. Maybe it always was and I just didn't pay enough attention!
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TheDriver
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Post by TheDriver on Sept 2, 2018 13:47:50 GMT
All RYI processed now. Thanks, Stonk. Thanks for an alternative, lara. Once you understand how the new rolling account works, and the need for RYI if you need to extract your money, then perhaps it is ok. Perhaps you just need to set everything to holding account and login more frequently; or soon just set the reinvestment rate. What I didn't like is the way they made it out to be a minor change for the benefit of the investor when it was actually a massive change and more or less fixed every investors rolling loans to 2.8% for an average of 2yrs. What I will probably do is switch more funds to the 5yr account if I get a decent rate. 1.5% penalty on a 6% rate means 3months interest penalty for a year's investment (or the equivalent of 4.5%). If you can get a very good rate in rolling then great. It seems to me that it's all about predicting when you want to access your money now and working out how much penalty RYI represents compared to the duration of your investment. Maybe it always was and I just didn't pay enough attention! Yes, I think it was, except that now you can expect a good rate on Rolling to continue rather than chase it each month, although now you have to actually ask (RYI) if you want it back at any time and suffer a 14 day new-money ban - which will remain, although fee-free. BTW, you can only set Rolling INTEREST repayments to holding, not capital, and it seems that rule will continue even when they re-introduce setting your own rate for re-investment (together with a ban on cancelling those offers?!?). However, you are not locked into any contracts long-term, because you can cancel them with RYI the day after they roll each month.
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Post by fiatlender on Sept 2, 2018 15:37:20 GMT
BTW, you can only set Rolling INTEREST repayments to holding, not capital, and it seems that rule will continue even when they re-introduce setting your own rate for re-investment (together with a ban on cancelling those offers?!?).
Good point TheDriver, that seems to make more sense in getting your re-investment money back, rather than taking whatever rate is currently on the market then having to cancel it the following day just to withdraw it. As usual, Ratesetter seem to throw a rule change grenade in the room and quickly run away.
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