arby
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Post by arby on Dec 18, 2018 14:08:11 GMT
What is the loss as a % of total capital and interest returned over the same period ?.. I just calculated it and it's... *opens envelope* ... totally irrelevant!!! Not necessarily, it could be a very valid question which can't be seen by those viewing everything with a negative view. To be more specific, is it just the capital loss figure that hasn't been updated, or is it also the interest figure too? i.e. Is this just a case of data that hasn't been updated yet or has it been selectively updated so the good news is shown, but not the bad? If it's the latter then they deserve any criticism that can be thrown their way.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 18, 2018 14:36:19 GMT
What is the loss as a % of total capital and interest returned over the same period ?.. I just calculated it and it's... *opens envelope* ... totally irrelevant!!! No it is not most of us don’t fixated on loans that loose we just want to know that if we invest money we get more money in return currently 10% taxable in Lendy and 16% non taxable in FS. How they got there doesn’t matter all that matters is the end result . If you want your hand held and expect no loss in an individual loan then mainstream P2P is not the place to be. The same applies if you are not willing to accept responsibility for how much and what loans you choose. Again nobody has yet been able show me them making an overall loss on a fully diversified portfolio.
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coop
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Post by coop on Dec 18, 2018 15:30:52 GMT
I just calculated it and it's... *opens envelope* ... totally irrelevant!!! No it is not most of us don’t fixated on loans that loose we just want to know that if we invest money we get more money in return currently 10% taxable in Lendy and 16% non taxable in FS. How they got there doesn’t matter all that matters is the end result . If you want your hand held and expect no loss in an individual loan then mainstream P2P is not the place to be. The same applies if you are not willing to accept responsibility for how much and what loans you choose. Again nobody has yet been able show me them making an overall loss on a fully diversified portfolio. Why don't you get back to the day job of running FS mate. My point was about the deliberately misleading data released/omitted from FS statistics page. The "loss as a % of total capital and interest returned over the same period" not only barely makes sense it's also got eff all to do with why FS are seemingly incapable of producing accurate statistics.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 18, 2018 16:23:07 GMT
No it is not most of us don’t fixated on loans that loose we just want to know that if we invest money we get more money in return currently 10% taxable in Lendy and 16% non taxable in FS. How they got there doesn’t matter all that matters is the end result . If you want your hand held and expect no loss in an individual loan then mainstream P2P is not the place to be. The same applies if you are not willing to accept responsibility for how much and what loans you choose. Again nobody has yet been able show me them making an overall loss on a fully diversified portfolio. Why don't you get back to the day job of running FS mate. My point was about the deliberately misleading data released/omitted from FS statistics page. The "loss as a % of total capital and interest returned over the same period" not only barely makes sense it's also got eff all to do with why FS are seemingly incapable of producing accurate statistics. That may be well and good I would bet the majority of investors don’t give a fig about any statistics other than the one that gives them an actual profit. Give them a 10% return and you can tell them anything. It may not be correct but they don’t care. Those of us with substantial investments over several platforms actually manage them to make returns even higher and do our own DD and never rely on anything not independently verified. The figures are there dan1 produces independent presentations and we are all free to do our own nothing is hidden it is just misplaced as any lawyer does when presenting uncomfortable truths to the opposition. The way of life. Tell me you neve told a lie or mislead someone for your advantage and I might be more inclined to take notice of your indignation.
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Post by dan1 on Dec 18, 2018 17:27:02 GMT
I've updated the table of Capital Losses, which can be found here. The lost capital to date now stands at £1,193,152. The figure provided on the Loan Statistics page of £1,008,652 was last updated for October and does not yet include the capital losses from the disposal of the Mixed Use Property in Liverpool. Quite incredible that even with their deliberately vague and misleading stats; they STILL cook the books a bit to try and make them look better! Missing out a £185k loss from the latest statistics; one has to believe this didn't happen by accident. fundingsecure you should be ashamed The FS stats page is updated monthly and not in real time, hence the difference in reported figures. Monthly is sufficiently frequent to allow monitoring so I wouldn't agree that FS are cooking the books on this particular issue. The failure to default (for example the art loans) is an issue that doesn't sit well with me, however.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Dec 19, 2018 17:21:07 GMT
FS: All active and past loans...and future loans ! Some encouraging signs of late from FS with regard to presentation and more importantly, relevant information on renewals and new loans. Well done..a step in the right direction. One small point though fundingsecure ..the supplementary loan recently added to the platform for the West Bromwich development 2822520012 isn't exactly flying off the shelf. Might it have anything to do with the fact that at 13% it is the same rate as all previous 7 tranches, yet ranks behind them in case of default..at just £25K it may well fill but does it fairly reflect the additional risk?..just a thought
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Dec 19, 2018 21:17:53 GMT
Looking forward to seeing what the Whitehaven loan does to the next monthly release of statistics. A loan of 800K that realised 30K in auction and then, after costs, returns 13K to investors.
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arby
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Post by arby on Dec 19, 2018 21:57:05 GMT
Looking forward to seeing what the Whitehaven loan does to the next monthly release of statistics. A loan of 800K that realised 30K in auction and then, after costs, returns 13K to investors. Yes, i'm looking forward to it too. Struggling to contain my excitement at the mere thought of it actually. All those fools affected by this disaster, but who cares, right, as long as it justifies my view to not continue in FS?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 20, 2018 8:33:25 GMT
don't think that is very polite regarding the people who have lost a huge amount of money who trusted FS to handle their money.
Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 25% of investments - NO Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 50-98% of investments - YES
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arby
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Post by arby on Dec 20, 2018 10:31:44 GMT
don't think that is very polite regarding the people who have lost a huge amount of money who trusted FS to handle their money. Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 25% of investments - NO Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 50-98% of investments - YES To those affected by this loan going bad, please know that I was appalled by the talk of people looking forward to see these losses come through to the statistics. It is not something to be excited about. I have said such numerous times before and am often accused of working for FS. This time I tried sarcasm, I should have known that wouldn't work and is on me. I have no issue with requesting up to date statistics, that should be a given.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 21, 2018 11:16:12 GMT
don't think that is very polite regarding the people who have lost a huge amount of money who trusted FS to handle their money. Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 25% of investments - NO Are people entitled to complain if FS loans go bad and lose 50-98% of investments - YES To those affected by this loan going bad, please know that I was appalled by the talk of people looking forward to see these losses come through to the statistics. It is not something to be excited about. I have said such numerous times before and am often accused of working for FS. This time I tried sarcasm, I should have known that wouldn't work and is on me. I have no issue with requesting up to date statistics, that should be a given. Although I did recognise the sarcasm/irony on first reading I do recommend a suitable emoji when using it.
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Post by dan1 on Dec 21, 2018 21:48:13 GMT
Capital LossesThe table below lists the capital losses from loans marked as Completed. The data has been extracted from the individual loan listings except where additional recoveries have been achieved as documented in the footnotes (the return has been increased accordingly). The lost capital to date stands at £1,334,738. The figure provided on the Loan Statistics page of £1,008,652 was last updated for November and does not yet include the capital losses from the following loans: - Mixed Use Property in Liverpool - 13 Railway/Maritime memorabilia loans - Malaya Garnet Reference | Title | Rate | Loan | LTV | Repaid | Lost | Return | Bonus | End Date | Completed | Late | 572782847 | Two Rings | 13% | £2,200 | 69.84% | £1,688 | £512 | -23.3% | No | 12 Nov 14 | 16 Feb 15 | 96 | 654474218 | Lubin Paintings | 13% | £13,000 | 40.63% | 1£9,100 | £3,900 | -30.0% | No | 26 Nov 14 | 14 May 15 | 169 | 2002084876 | Lubin Paintings | 13% | £20,000 | 66.67% | £14,000 | £6,000 | -30.0% | No | 31 Aug 15 | 15 Sep 15 | 15 | 1922610905 | Scottish Boatyard | 13% | £250,000 | 62.50% | £216,441 | £33,559 | -13.4% | No | 15 Jan 16 | 18 Aug 17 | 581 | 6742133163 | Wind Turbine | 12% | £1,000,000 | 63.86% | 2£319,036 | £680,964 | -68.1% | No | 23 Aug 16 | 2 Oct 17 | 405 | 1355651457 | Name plate and Trains | 13% | £8,000 | 228.58% | £2,000 | £6,000 | 5-75.0% | No | 2 Mar 17 | 17 Jul 18 | 502 | 3867743062 | Knaresborough - 2nd | 16% | £100,000 | 63.00% | | £100,000 | -100.0% | No | 3 Mar 17 | 16 Aug 18 | 531 | 1411851665 | Railwayana 3 - Partial Rep. | 13% | £3,943 | 58.42% | £2,000 | £1,944 | 5-49.3% | No | 11 Mar 17 | 16 Jul 18 | 492 | 1213701687
| Mixed Use Property, Liverpool - Renewal
| 13%
| £625,000
| 65.79%
| £440,500
| £184,500
| -29.5%
| Yes
| 18 Mar 17
| 7 Dec 18
| 629 | 6506149886
| Trains
| 13% | £14,500
| 69.48%
| £4,975
| £9,525 | 5-65.7% | No | 24 Mar 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 635 | 1804081423
| Maritime Mem. - Renewal
| 13% | £5,655
| 68.13%
| £1,357
| £4,298 | 5-76.0% | No | 30 Mar 17 | 20 Dec 18 | 630 | 9353059607
| Trains and memorabilia
| 13% | £8,600
| 78.18%
| £1,260
| £7,340 | 5-85.3% | No | 6 Apr 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 622 | 3033854831
| Collection of railway models
| 13% | £14,407
| 68.22%
| £3,360
| £11,047 | 5-76.7% | No | 28 Apr 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 600 | 2286673307 | Railwayana 5 - Renewal | 13% | £3,100 | 51.67% | £1,300 | £1,800 | 5-58.1% | No | 30 Apr 17 | 16 Jul 18 | 442 | 1411250582
| Railway Coaches - Renewal
| 13% | £4,238
| 132.80%
| £1,200
| £3,038 | 5-71.7% | No | 19 Jun 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 548 | 3093125938
| Railwayana - Renewal
| 13% | £11,200 | 62.22%
| £2,200
| £9,000 | 5-80.4% | No | 19 Jun 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 548 | 1415667110
| Railway mem. - Renewal
| 13% | £5,157
| 96.39%
| £1,300
| £3,857 | 5-74.8% | No | 2 Jul 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 535 | 3042513260
| Model Railway... - Renewal
| 13% | £11,559
| 51.15%
| £2,400
| £9,159 | 5-79.2% | No | 2 Jul 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 535 | 5257926445 | The Lodge | 13% | £190,000 | 69.09% | 3£141,400 | £48,600 | -25.6% | Yes | 14 Jul 17 | 16 Apr 18 | 276 | 3057909038 | The Riding School | 13% | £238,500 | 68.14% | 4£177,400 | £61,100 | -25.6% | Yes | 14 Jul 17 | 16 Apr 18 | 276 | 8087670443
| Collection of railway models
| 13% | £12,827
| 86.55%
| £3,456
| £9,371 | 5-73.1% | No | 29 Jul 17 | 19 Dec 18
| 508 | 1780965818
| Railway models - Renewal
| 13% | £10,663
| 125.44%
| £3,290
| £7,373 | 5-69.1% | No | 8 Aug 17 | 19 Dec 18
| 498 | 3178751025
| Trains - Renewal
| 13% | £6,000 | 88.23%
| £1,124
| £4,876 | 5-81.3% | No | 16 Aug 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 490 | 2356637233
| Railwayana - Renewal
| 13% | £6,000
| 66.67%
| £2,000 | £4,000 | -66.7%
| No | 30 Aug 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 476 | 9899194706
| Model Trains - Renewal
| 13% | £11,130
| 114.74%
| £1,830 | £9,300 | 5-83.6%
| No | 9 Sep 17 | 19 Dec 18 | 466 | 2027812507 | Neath Property | 13% | £116,000 | 70.30% | £75,305 | £40,695 | -35.1% | Yes | 19 Sep 17 | 12 Oct 18 | 388 | 2125032158 | Peter Howson Painting | 10% | £10,000 | 33.33% | £5,625 | £4,375 | -43.7% | No | 26 Sep 17 | 11 Apr 18 | 197 | 1291079105 | Neath Property - Supp. | 13% | £10,000 | 70.00% | | £10,000 | -100.0% | No | 12 Oct 17 | 12 Oct 18 | 365
| 8526896902
| Property in Skewen - Renewal
| 12% | £46,000
| 65.71%
| £40,422
| £5,578 | -12.1%
| No | 13 May 18 | 17 Oct 18 | 157 | 3046618699
| Collection of Rings - Renewal
| 12% | £8,000 | 61.54%
| £4,775
| £3,225 | -40.3%
| No | 17 Jun 18 | 22 Oct 18 | 127 | 2127087124
| Diamond Earrings - Renewal
| 12% | £3,000 | 60.00%
| £2,600
| £400 | -13.3%
| No | 17 Jun 18
| 22 Oct 18
| 127 | 7663442012
| Malaya Garnet - Renewal
| 13% | £60,000 | 66.67% | £10,598
| £49,402 | -82.3%
| No | 2 Oct 18 | 21 Dec 18 | 80 |
Please let me know of any errors or omissions. 1 20 Apr 15: "The total sale proceeds amount to £1,880. All active investors will shortly receive a capital repayment in proportion to the amount invested." 2 18 Jul 18: "A further (small) amount has been recovered and will be distributed shortly." - £14,465.27 (derived from the Loan Statistics lost capital of £948,754 minus the sum of lost capital excluding the Neath Property). Represents an additional 1.45%, which is almost consistent with the reported 1.5%, see here. 3 7 Jun 18: "A further amount of £3,900 has now been recovered - representing approximately an additional 2.1% return of capital, which will shortly be distributed to all investors accounts proportionately." 4 7 Jun 18: "A further amount of £4,900 has now been recovered - representing approximately an additional 2.1% return of capital, which will shortly be distributed to all investors accounts proportionately." 5 "Note that there may have been a previous part-repayment. The capital loss should therefore be viewed in the context of the overall loan rather than the remaining items."
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 22, 2018 1:29:16 GMT
Thanks again Dan1.
So overall loss is less than 0.5%. Although individual loans may be a disaster if properly diversified the returns achievable are very reasonable.
Under performing loans should be looked at as part of the whole and not singled and purported as being the norm as some people do who feel aggrieved.
I know the platforms have a duty of care and perhaps should do more to advise the naive investors of the potential underpermance of some loans but the abusive comments cannot really be justified as proper investment would still give good returns.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 22, 2018 8:22:37 GMT
Thanks again Dan1. So overall loss is less than 0.5%. Although individual loans may be a disaster if properly diversified the returns achievable are very reasonable. Under performing loans should be looked at as part of the whole and not singled and purported as being the norm as some people do who feel aggrieved. I know the platforms have a duty of care and perhaps should do more to advise the naive investors of the potential underpermance of some loans but the abusive comments cannot really be justified as proper investment would still give good returns. I opted for diversification over DD on this platform. I invested in 74 loans over a period of about a year, investing a standard amount in each loan as far as possible. 3 defaulted. If South Wales Property returns 71% (unlikely) my losses will equal all time interest earned. More likely I will show a net loss. I quite accept that when dealing in p2p, like junk bonds, one has to accept a level of losses, however just read through the updates on South Wales Property (1442701959) and you will see why I lost all confidence in the platforms ability to manage property loans.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Dec 22, 2018 16:05:02 GMT
Thanks again Dan1. So overall loss is less than 0.5%. Although individual loans may be a disaster if properly diversified the returns achievable are very reasonable. Under performing loans should be looked at as part of the whole and not singled and purported as being the norm as some people do who feel aggrieved. I know the platforms have a duty of care and perhaps should do more to advise the naive investors of the potential underpermance of some loans but the abusive comments cannot really be justified as proper investment would still give good returns. I opted for diversification over DD on this platform. I invested in 74 loans over a period of about a year, investing a standard amount in each loan as far as possible. 3 defaulted. If South Wales Property returns 71% (unlikely) my losses will equal all time interest earned. More likely I will show a net loss. I quite accept that when dealing in p2p, like junk bonds, one has to accept a level of losses, however just read through the updates on South Wales Property (1442701959) and you will see why I lost all confidence in the platforms ability to manage property loans. It depends on what your “standard amount “ is. I strive for <1% of portfolio which means at least 100 loans. Most platforms advocate a maximum of 1% to nearly guaranteed a positive return. If you had say £2500 and invested in the same loans + further to make 100 and your failures were increased to 4. Your loss at 100% would be £100 your interest in 6 months for remaining £2400 would be £144 . You would need to be very unlucky to have so many failures and 100% loss is also extremely unlikely. Diversify,diversify,Diversify or sell before maturity
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