hazellend
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Post by hazellend on May 5, 2019 17:17:00 GMT
Hi Monetus — thank you and appreciate you efforts. Was there any word on cash balances ( ie not invested into any loans) — are these ring fenced and safe? Cash that was held in the Collateral client account is considered a "trust asset". The data recovery process is still ongoing in regards to reconciling balances. Monetus, thanks for your ongoing efforts. With DFLs do you know if the first, second etc charges will be honoured?
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 5, 2019 17:36:01 GMT
Cash that was held in the Collateral client account is considered a "trust asset". The data recovery process is still ongoing in regards to reconciling balances. Monetus, thanks for your ongoing efforts. With DFLs do you know if the first, second etc charges will be honoured? Monetus has confirmed elsewhere (see p2pindependentforum.com/post/309168 ) and BDO's reports make fairly clear that it is BDO's intention to do so. But I haven't seen any clarity as to your question in the other thread about how interest payments rank among this.
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Post by brightspark on May 5, 2019 17:48:41 GMT
If I'm reading the latest update correctly, BDO think the majority of lenders accounts are validated apart from the "small number" they mentioned. Any reason why BDO cannot email each of that majority with details of loans assigned to them, so we can compare with our own records? Some guesses off the top of my head: 1) While 'validation' appears to have occurred for the majority at this stage, there are clearly still issues more generally. They may be cautious about releasing apparently 'validated' accounts, just to have a few lenders come back to them to say they've screwed up and theirs are actually still with problems (e.g. with the underlying detail, rather than the total amount). It makes sense for them to want to iron out whatever kinks exist in their overall methodology before releasing any to avoid this. 2) If they can't reconcile the accounts of some lenders, it may (I'm not sure) be difficult for them to adopt their currently intended approach of loan-by-loan/tranche-by-tranche distributions for anyone. If they start releasing this information to investors now, before they know for sure they can adopt this approach, it's just going to cause trouble. 3) It's generally likely to be more efficient (and, therefore, cheaper) to do these things in one go rather than in batches - but they can't do that until numbers are confirmed for everyone. I don't think it is that important that everything balances to the nearest penny. Once the Administrators have a firm handle on things they can ask each participant to confirm that the proposal they have in mind is agreeable. Provided all agree or any discrepancies become mutually acceptable/sorted things can go forward. It really is not that difficult.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 5, 2019 17:56:50 GMT
Some guesses off the top of my head: 1) While 'validation' appears to have occurred for the majority at this stage, there are clearly still issues more generally. They may be cautious about releasing apparently 'validated' accounts, just to have a few lenders come back to them to say they've screwed up and theirs are actually still with problems (e.g. with the underlying detail, rather than the total amount). It makes sense for them to want to iron out whatever kinks exist in their overall methodology before releasing any to avoid this. 2) If they can't reconcile the accounts of some lenders, it may (I'm not sure) be difficult for them to adopt their currently intended approach of loan-by-loan/tranche-by-tranche distributions for anyone. If they start releasing this information to investors now, before they know for sure they can adopt this approach, it's just going to cause trouble. 3) It's generally likely to be more efficient (and, therefore, cheaper) to do these things in one go rather than in batches - but they can't do that until numbers are confirmed for everyone. I don't think it is that important that everything balances to the nearest penny. Once the Administrators have a firm handle on things they can ask each participant to confirm that the proposal they have in mind is agreeable. Provided all agree or any discrepancies become mutually acceptable/sorted things can go forward. It really is not that difficult. This isn't about things balancing to the nearest penny - I'm assuming you've seen posts on this forum claiming their totals are way off? "Once the Administrators have a firm handle on things..." "Provided all agree..." "...any discrepancies become mutually acceptable/sorted..." Aren't you making quite a few assumptions here? You're basically saying "once everything is sorted, it will be sorted." The whole point is that apparently it's not yet sorted! Of course if they solve everything then it'll be fine - that's kind of my point: It's potentially difficult for them to start sending out investor records until they have solved everything. I wasn't commenting on how easy or difficult that will be, because obviously I don't have direct knowledge of the detail.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 5, 2019 17:59:20 GMT
Monetus, thanks for your ongoing efforts. With DFLs do you know if the first, second etc charges will be honoured? Monetus has confirmed elsewhere (see p2pindependentforum.com/post/309168 ) and BDO's reports make fairly clear that it is BDO's intention to do so. But I haven't seen any clarity as to your question in the other thread about how interest payments rank among this. As you mentioned in the other thread, I'm not sure if anything was written into any company or Land Registry charges, and certainly unaware of anything in loan or tranche contracts. I'm also not sure what evidence is available on any loan documents or individual loan tranches that appeared on the web-site as unfortunately I didn't keep copies, although I am sure some did.
p2pindependentforum.com/post/208317/thread
One thing I do have are some "New Loan" notification emails from Collateral relating to various loans that mirror the wording of the latter link.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 5, 2019 18:03:41 GMT
Monetus has confirmed elsewhere (see p2pindependentforum.com/post/309168 ) and BDO's reports make fairly clear that it is BDO's intention to do so. But I haven't seen any clarity as to your question in the other thread about how interest payments rank among this. As you mentioned in the other thread, I'm not sure if anything was written into any company or Land Registry charges, and certainly unaware of anything in loan or tranche contracts. I'm also not sure what evidence is available on any loan documents or individual loan tranches that appeared on the web-site as unfortunately I didn't keep copies, although I am sure some did.
p2pindependentforum.com/post/208317/thread
One thing I do have are some "New Loan" notification emails from Collateral relating to various loans that mirror the wording of the latter link.
That first link is definitely very helpful on the interest payment point. Although - as you suggest - open question as to where this might have been recorded, and to what extent BDO is aware of it/intends to follow it.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on May 6, 2019 9:54:32 GMT
Cash that was held in the Collateral client account is considered a "trust asset". The data recovery process is still ongoing in regards to reconciling balances. Monetus, thanks for your ongoing efforts. With DFLs do you know if the first, second etc charges will be honoured? The honest answer is "I don't know yet". From what I understand it is certainly BDO's intention to follow tranche rankings and priorities but this will of course depend on various factors including how complete the data recovery is, the platform terms and their legal standing etc.
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gc
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Post by gc on May 6, 2019 10:38:44 GMT
Thanks Monetus, I can imagine how frustrating this is for you also, fella.
Obviously, we all want the same outcome (minimal loss).
IMHO, all companies in this sort of arena should have insurances to cover a backups percentage (or data loss) and if they don't then the authorities haven't been doing their DD properly on them... It should be something that is introduced in some form as there is little to no protection for the lenders when/if a company decide to play dirty......(Gone a little off, but I guess we are all entitled to "vent" a tad when things go South)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 6, 2019 13:46:30 GMT
IMHO, all companies in this sort of arena should have insurances to cover a backups percentage (or data loss) and if they don't then the authorities haven't been doing their DD properly on them... It should be something that is introduced in some form as there is little to no protection for the lenders when/if a company decide to play dirty......(Gone a little off, but I guess we are all entitled to "vent" a tad when things go South) You mean part of the requirements for regulatory approval...? And that's where we came in, of course.
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james21
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Post by james21 on May 6, 2019 14:46:02 GMT
Monetus, thanks for your ongoing efforts. With DFLs do you know if the first, second etc charges will be honoured? The honest answer is "I don't know yet". From what I understand it is certainly BDO's intention to follow tranche rankings and priorities but this will of course depend on various factors including how complete the data recovery is, the platform terms and their legal standing etc. Interesting one this; if legally the tranches have not been registered in seniority I would assume all are equal which will please the 15% investors on the Bolton loan but displease the 12% holders. Presumably to fill their biggest loan col incentivised investors by giving more interest, again presumably by reducing their own cut. Whether comments by the col rep on this board regarding seniority will be accepted I dont know and whether BDO can decide again I dont know, but I would have thought if BDO would be in for a legal challenge if the loans priority are not registered at CH. Am in the 15% BTW! so somewhat biased in my view
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 6, 2019 15:33:11 GMT
The honest answer is "I don't know yet". From what I understand it is certainly BDO's intention to follow tranche rankings and priorities but this will of course depend on various factors including how complete the data recovery is, the platform terms and their legal standing etc. Interesting one this; if legally the tranches have not been registered in seniority I would assume all are equal which will please the 15% investors on the Bolton loan but displease the 12% holders. Presumably to fill their biggest loan col incentivised investors by giving more interest, again presumably by reducing their own cut. Whether comments by the col rep on this board regarding seniority will be accepted I dont know and whether BDO can decide again I dont know, but I would have thought if BDO would be in for a legal challenge if the loans priority are not registered at CH. Am in the 15% BTW! so somewhat biased in my view I think you might be confusing two things here. Multiple charges are registered when multiple lenders lend to a borrower and take security over the same asset. In this case, we only have one lender (at least, if you keep things to Collateral <-> Borrower), so it would make no sense to register multiple charges. There is a single loan facility from one lender with a single charge. Separately, we have the underlying lenders/investors through the Collateral platform. As part of these arrangements (and as appears common in asset-backed p2p), Collateral stated to investors that the separate tranches would rank differently in the event of default. This is a Collateral <-> Investors agreement, not a Collateral <-> Borrower agreement - so it wouldn't be registered. It's also more than just comments by the Collateral rep on here - it's specific terms mentioned in the tranche offers to investors; terms which form part of the agreement between Collateral and their investors. It would be very, very odd (and legally suspect) to ignore these *provided that* BDO are actually able to work out what everyone's tranche holdings are (which appears to be the current struggle). BDO have also alluded to an awareness of this exact issue in several of their reports, suggesting that they are looking to match investors to specific tranches for the purposes of distributions, e.g.: " The Joint Administrators have been advised by the directors that the Companies’ electronic data would include sufficient detail to enable the preparation of an analysis of each investor’s investments into specific loans or tranches of loans. Obtaining this analysis is key, given the nature of the investors’ ‘trust’ claims and the fact that, on the basis of the initial legal analysis, each investor may expect a different outcome depending on their own investment portfolio across the Collateral platform." (emphasis added)
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on May 6, 2019 15:34:54 GMT
If the data is recovered then at best it would be immoral not to pay in order of tranches.
If the data’s not recovered then who knows
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sqh
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Post by sqh on May 6, 2019 16:05:26 GMT
chris1200, hazellendI was one of those lenders who received a discrepancy email from BDO, simply because I had parts for sale which got omitted when calculating my total investment. I believe these emails only got sent to those with large discrepancies. That email listed every one of my investments individually with the relevant tranche number. So BDO should have no problem adhering to tranche priority.
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amanda373
Anyone downloaded the full transcript of the Court Session with the FCA. .?
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Post by amanda373 on May 10, 2019 10:01:56 GMT
I received an alert today from Companies house stating that Collateral has moved from administration to voluntary liquidation. What does this mean..?
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on May 10, 2019 10:25:51 GMT
I received an alert today from Companies house stating that Collateral has moved from administration to voluntary liquidation. What does this mean..? For investors - not very much. It's just a notice to advise that BDO don't see the point in keeping Collateral actively trading so it is being wound down. The main difference for us is that the frequency of the official BDO updates will increase from every 6 months to every 12 months.
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