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Post by roandy55 on Dec 21, 2018 16:30:24 GMT
I also find it hilarious the borrower can't afford the 12K but apparently has a 1 million pound personal guarantee against this loan. I have a substantial investment in this loan and absolutely no faith in the PF, I am not sure who is the biggest con artist really this borrower or AC. I don't believe there is no refinance offer its just one big financial scam. I voted B, sick of AC now can't wait until my account is empty. This loan was certainly a wake-up call for me. As soon as the zero interest extension was agreed I closed my GBBA accounts and went to QAA. Quite happy to accept a lower interest rate in order to avoid any future debacles like this. Thankfully I am only in for a fairly small amount.
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Post by brightspark on Jan 4, 2019 15:05:33 GMT
Prevarication with procrastination is the new art form - in this case one in which some lenders at least most in % terms participated. Now lenders are being obliged to wait yet again. Me - I'd rather know my losses sooner rather than later. It also makes filling in the tax return easier.
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Post by investor01010101 on Jan 4, 2019 16:29:21 GMT
It will be interesting to see how long the borrower can keep AC on the hook for, clearly the majority of investors are happy with the never ending story so not a lot anyone can do now but wait and see just how long it goes on for. Its so favourable to the borrower despite the borrower breaching the covenants in the agreement that I think Ill borrow a few million from AC myself.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 4, 2019 19:24:58 GMT
It will be interesting to see how long the borrower can keep AC on the hook for, clearly the majority of investors are happy with the never ending story so not a lot anyone can do now but wait and see just how long it goes on for. I read the result another way. 55% didn't even vote. Why???
Surely the millions this 55% represents mean something to those non-voters. Do many people simply not follow their investments? (there is almost always a high abstention rate, sometimes 90%).
GBBA/PIA holders so probably not as automated account and PF protection. QAA/30DAA doesn't vote (though only 280k)
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bg
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Post by bg on Jan 4, 2019 19:29:57 GMT
I read the result another way. 55% didn't even vote. Why???
Surely the millions this 55% represents mean something to those non-voters. Do many people simply not follow their investments? (there is almost always a high abstention rate, sometimes 90%).
GBBA/PIA holders so probably not as automated account and PF protection. QAA/30DAA doesn't vote (though only 280k) I didn't vote and I have several thousand in it via MLIA. I very rarely vote on anything, mainly because I can't be bothered reading the updates and my vote has very little impact anyway.....I'd rather just leave it to the crowd/AC.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 4, 2019 20:51:12 GMT
ilmoro - I thought the PF was actually pretty small so the likelihood of it covering losses was non existent. I can't find the thread or email now, but it was in the 100s of k range rather than millions.
Within AC, clicking on 'show more' against GBBA (Series 1) on main page shows size of its PF
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bg
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Post by bg on Jan 4, 2019 22:24:14 GMT
bg - surely that defeats the purpose of being one of the ps in p2p, especially with a provider like AC? We have (some) power to influence intervention. I guess it depends what % of your portfolio the loan represents (not much point micromanaging if the loan is a tiny % of your portfolio). We disagree perhaps on strategy, but I do respect that different strategies work for different people. I've certainly found p2p takes too much time for the returns and have reduced dramatically my investments over the last year. Perhaps a hands-off approach would suit me better!
I think the main factor to consider when investing on a platform is how much you trust the platform to a) choose good loans through their DD and b) manage the defaults effectively. That is what I feel they get paid for and what will dictate which platforms survive in the longer term. Notwithstanding some problem loans (which hopefully AC have learnt from) I think AC is one of the best for both. This loan is a tiny percentage of my portfolio and while I have no desire to lose several thousand pounds I don't think my vote either way will have much (if any) impact on the eventual recovery or the speed of it. We are only being asked whether we formally issue a demand now or give the borrower another few weeks before doing so. For me, it's just not worth trawling through what is a very complex situation to make an assessment as to what is the best option.....when both options are really very similar. Personally I would rather AC made the decision. They are supposed to be the experts and if they were making bad decisions consistently their lenders (retail and institutional) would soon withdraw funds. It's not to their long term benefit to act against the lenders best interests. I also think there are many people investing in P2P who really misunderstand the nature of some of the loans which can skew the vote somewhat. They think that if a loan is 55% LTV then it is effectively risk free. All they need to do is call the security and you can get a full recovery within a few days. There's a reason the borrower had to pay c15% to get this loan - there is a big risk. I know from experience that on an illiquid asset like this the best course of action is typically to work with the borrower which is what AC have been trying to do.
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Post by brightspark on Jan 5, 2019 9:01:11 GMT
Unfortunately some other platforms have taken inordinate liberties with the recovery process and trust has been eroded. Increasingly borrowers cannot be trusted to honour their obligations with the old-fashioned concept that "my word is my bond" disappeared out of the window to be replaced with "I'll take out of this deal is much as I can" attitude. In that climate lenders can hardly be blamed for pushing hard for their money back . In this instance the borrower has already had a great deal of forbearance on what is a relatively large loan and it is time there was movement. Personally I was not impressed that with only 9 weeks to go before the deadline that the borrowers seemed content to close up shop until 7 January.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jan 5, 2019 23:34:54 GMT
I read the result another way. 55% didn't even vote. Why???
Surely the millions this 55% represents mean something to those non-voters. Do many people simply not follow their investments? (there is almost always a high abstention rate, sometimes 90%).
GBBA/PIA holders so probably not as automated account and PF protection. QAA/30DAA doesn't vote (though only 280k) I've asked AC before if they could include each person's level of investment on the vote emails. I bet half the people on this hook haven't yet realised what GBBA's absence of diversification has done to them
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duck
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Post by duck on Jan 6, 2019 6:17:49 GMT
GBBA/PIA holders so probably not as automated account and PF protection. QAA/30DAA doesn't vote (though only 280k) I've asked AC before if they could include each person's level of investment on the vote emails. I bet half the people on this hook haven't yet realised what GBBA's absence of diversification has done to themI keep a track of my (now very small) holdings in GBBA1 and this loan currently represents 31.77%* of the total holdings in the account. Since AC added a 'downloadable' of loans held finding out this information is very easy, I used to run a spreadsheet which extracted the data from transactions but that got very big and slow to open. Whilst I imagine a lot of automated account holders shelter behind the PF I cannot understand why knowing why they are not receiving much interest doesn't make them look further. *Total % of defaulted/non performing loans in this account is currently 60.26 for me.
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bg
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Post by bg on Jan 6, 2019 9:21:31 GMT
In this instance the borrower has already had a great deal of forbearance on what is a relatively large loan and it is time there was movement. Personally I was not impressed that with only 9 weeks to go before the deadline that the borrowers seemed content to close up shop until 7 January. That's fair enough. That is the reason I did not vote on this loan as I know it has been dragging on for a while. For me to make an assessment as to whether the borrower is deliberately dragging things out would have taken a lot of reading and analysis which I did not think was worthwhile. As I said, I trust AC's judgement on this. That is why they have by far my biggest P2P investment. If that trust comes into doubt then that investment will fall proportionately. I think it's true yes that some platforms have kicked the can down the road on a few loans yes...but it's also true that often many things are going on in the background that just can't be disclosed for legal reasons. "my word is my bond" hasn't applied for centuries. What is put up for security is the limit of any borrowers obligations...they are entitled to walk away at any point and that is clear from the start. In this case there is a personal guarantee for over £1m, so if the borrower can't stump that up to cover any loss then they will ultimately be declared bankrupt which is fairly disastrous for them. I'm all for pushing hard for getting money back but there is a misplaced belief that defaulting a loan and pushing through a quick sale will lead to a successful outcome. In illiquid loans such as this (add to that any unusual commercial property, bespoke round the world record attempt endurance boats, miniature model trains etc) pushing for a fast distressed sale will often lead to a large capital loss - and that doesn't mean the valuation was wrong. Generally the best course for a full recovery is working with the borrower (whose interests are aligned in getting as high a sales price as possible) even if that process takes a couple of years.
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Post by brightspark on Jan 6, 2019 10:45:53 GMT
A cool, calm and collected response empathising with the attempts of the borrower to move things along is usually the correct approach. It has been tried with this borrower. Little to show for it at the moment.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 6, 2019 15:58:06 GMT
A cool, calm and collected response empathising with the attempts of the borrower to move things along is usually the correct approach. It has been tried with this borrower. Little to show for it at the moment. In fact, 'nothing' might be closer to the truth than 'little'.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 6, 2019 17:11:06 GMT
It strikes me that in this case, as in all defaulted loans ,that 'The Borrowers' should immediately annex the goods/property and then take THEIR time in achieving a satisfactory sale . Is that unreasonable /impossible ? Aren't we, essentially, pawnbrokers?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 6, 2019 17:28:15 GMT
It strikes me that in this case, as in all defaulted loans ,that 'The Borrowers' should immediately annex the goods/property and then take THEIR time in achieving a satisfactory sale . Is that unreasonable /impossible ? Aren't we, essentially, pawnbrokers? Careful, the term 'annex' has inappropriate connotations. People might think you are advocating the construction of an extension perhaps even a 'monstrous carbuncle' 😁
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