ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Oct 17, 2018 9:55:51 GMT
Interesting note this morning.
I see that all bids and offers appear to have been cancelled, with the gaps already starting to be filled in. Bargains may be available!
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Post by fatbritabroad on Oct 17, 2018 10:05:11 GMT
It's at times like this that my albeit measly amount is very diversified across the platform
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Oct 17, 2018 10:19:20 GMT
Interesting note this morning.
I see that all bids and offers appear to have been cancelled, with the gaps already starting to be filled in. Bargains may be available!
It's to allow any buys to be limited to 100% i.e. no premium sales allowed until the financial position of the connected borrower becomes clearly; admirable caution to protect lenders from ablrate IMO - Well done good work.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 17, 2018 10:29:33 GMT
Two cheers from me. There is a substantial difference in my book between 67&68 and the rest. For the rest the 100% limit is a good acknowledgement, but they should not be all treated the same. Borrower 67&68 is a subsidiary of controlling company (by shares) in administration, and though the subsidiary is not formally in administration, it is de facto imo. I was expecting trading to be stopped in these due to a credit event. I thought it used to be that the first task of an administrator was to lock the chegue book in the safe and change the combination. They will not want wholly owned subsidiaries doing their own thing, imo. (to state position, I am not in any of these except for a token).
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 17, 2018 10:34:59 GMT
Two cheers from me. There is a substantial difference in my book between 67&68 and the rest. For the rest the 100% limit is a good acknowledgement, but they should not be all treated the same. Borrower 67&68 is a subsidiary of controlling company (by shares) in administration, and though the subsidiary is not formally in administration, it is de facto imo. I was expecting trading to be stopped in these due to a credit event. I thought it used to be that the first task of an administrator was to lock the chegue book in the safe and change the combination. They will not want wholly owned subsidiaries doing their own thing, imo. Trading in 068 is effectively suspended because you cant trade an amortising loan when a paymnet is due. So 2.5 cheers?
Edit that means that trading in all except 067 will become suspended shortly as they are also amortising.
Oops connected but not directly related entities so wont automatically not be able to make payments.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 17, 2018 10:43:43 GMT
Nope, the two was generous. I have this unfashionable attachment to principles. I got out of all these after the loan 41 repayment - thanks to some wise counsel. Of course, 67 may pay up after Thursday's meeting, but then your extra head may fly away, ilmoro. Edit: No it does not mean that all the other loans will be suspended, because we have not been informed of a materialised problem with any other borrower. That's what I mean about lumping them all together being wrong.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Oct 17, 2018 11:13:33 GMT
Nope, the two was generous. I have this unfashionable attachment to principles. I got out of all these after the loan 41 repayment - thanks to some wise counsel. Of course, 67 may pay up after Thursday's meeting, but then your extra head may fly away, ilmoro. Edit: No it does not mean that all the other loans will be suspended, because we have not been informed of a materialised problem with any other borrower. That's what I mean about lumping them all together being wrong. I have neither principles or a tethered pig on my head (or any of these loans any more) what I do have is a desire for somebody to remove the duplicate 104 in the thread title.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 17, 2018 11:38:29 GMT
Should be 105, but possibly the poster could not get past 104 for some reason.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 17, 2018 12:01:01 GMT
Nope, the two was generous. I have this unfashionable attachment to principles. I got out of all these after the loan 41 repayment - thanks to some wise counsel. Of course, 67 may pay up after Thursday's meeting, but then your extra head may fly away, ilmoro. Edit: No it does not mean that all the other loans will be suspended, because we have not been informed of a materialised problem with any other borrower. That's what I mean about lumping them all together being wrong. Fair point. However, the interelationship is a pretty close one. Brewery has contracts for beer with 2 BN companies, one of whom is in admin, which are their only guarentied sales. BN also are heavily involved in the pubs as the supplier so there must be potential for short term cashflow issues. Its a symbiotic enough relationship for them to be lumped together in the short term.
ablrate do we need some admin notes on some of these loans? Change of name of borrower on pub co, resignation of guarantor from brewery, change in ownership/resignation of principal shareholder of brewery
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 17, 2018 12:20:15 GMT
I have neither principles or a tethered pig on my head (or any of these loans any more) what I do have is a desire for somebody to remove the duplicate 104 in the thread title. I'll do that .... Should be 105, but possibly the poster could not get past 104 for some reason. ...............and assume 105 is an appropriate replacement.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 17, 2018 13:21:08 GMT
Admin notes have been added and caution notices placed on the bid/offer pages. Number of cheers awarded increased from two to three. Good fortune wished for Ablrate and lenders in Thursday's meeting. Beware any alcoholic beverages offered.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Oct 17, 2018 14:24:50 GMT
Apologies for the typo in the title, and thanks to star dust for fixing it.
I agree that the situation with 67/68 ought to be different to the others, but the market (as viewed in the ABL SM) doesn't seem to think so - all have been tarred with the same brush.
I have a modest position in one of these, and am thankful that I stuck to my principle of treating the clusters of loosely linked loans as if they were just one, and limiting my investment accordingly. It was a situation exactly like this one that I had in mind - the treatment of the more loosely connected loans, with their own security and all, may be unfair but its exactly how one might expect people to behave.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Oct 18, 2018 5:39:02 GMT
admirable caution to protect lenders from ablrate Yes, seems we may need protecting from them
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Post by westcountry on Oct 19, 2018 15:18:51 GMT
Is there any news yet from yesterday's meeting with the borrowers, please, ablrate? I'm not expecting to enjoy the news, but it would be good to at least have more of an idea of where things stand.
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ganymede
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Post by ganymede on Oct 19, 2018 16:58:39 GMT
I just received the e-mail. There is an admin note added by ablrate.
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