|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 15:19:53 GMT
Important update on #085 - loan has been restructed with material changes - see docs for full details Hang on ablrate who agreed to nearly half the rate & switch to a bullet repayment instead of amortising, was Theresa May your negotiator??? I have no problem in being flexible & perhaps giving the borrower a temporary reduction in rate &/or moving to an interest only period but such a major, radical change to the entire structure of the loan should at least have been consulted with lenders first before being imposed & quite possible put to a vote given it's CONTENTIOUS NATURE.
I am even prepared to accept that this may have been the only available option to avoid default but the premise still holds that such unilateral action, to the detriment of lenders ALONE, is not an acceptable way to behave. So perhaps if you deem that imposing these new terms onto us unilaterally is the only option you will now offer to buyback any loan @ 100 on the SM to allow those who don't wish to accept these new, vastly inferior terms an acceptable escape route.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,840
Likes: 11,068
|
Post by ilmoro on Dec 7, 2018 15:32:52 GMT
Not solely to the detriment of lenders, Ablrate have taken a pretty big fee cut themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 15:39:29 GMT
Not solely to the detriment of lenders, Ablrate have taken a pretty big fee cut themselves. Presumably in recognition of their woeful initial DD on the borrower, given that at the first sign of trouble, the borrower is placed into such financial problems that they need to be given such a generous debt forgiveness package. Perhaps using their fee income that has already been paid to fund any SM purchases may help rebuild some lender confidence in platform competence.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Dec 7, 2018 15:44:04 GMT
We are told that this is the best way to preserve the capital. It is hard to understand how the borrower is going to be better able to repay the outstanding capital in two years, with amortisation removed and the security plant depreciating in value. The best way to preserve that capital might be to invoke the security, sell the kit, and take the balance from the guarantor - whose personal worth was stated at over £1M. Strange that option is not mentioned - perhaps that £1M is not readily available? But it would seem that plan is to sell the business, at less than the value of the loan, and then to go after the guarantor for the balance (good luck with that). I thought we were going to see the whole picture of the interconnected loans and the proposals. Maybe the plan is to see how lenders respond to this one first. (I sold mine).
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,873
Likes: 7,918
|
Post by SteveT on Dec 7, 2018 15:44:37 GMT
I much prefer that competent platform representatives (acting as the authorised agents of the lenders that they are) determine the best course of action on behalf of all lenders. Otherwise there is serious risk that the short-termist headless chickens rule the day in a vote (most of whom probably shouldn’t have been putting money into P2P in the first place). Just look at some of the threads on the FS board, where many lenders clamour for guaranteed instant losses via fire sales.
As for expecting to be bought out at Par simply because you weren’t asked for an opinion, that’s a nonsense. You cannot appoint someone as your agent and then complain when decisions are made for you.
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 15:51:01 GMT
I much prefer that competent platform representatives (acting as the authorised agents of the lenders that they are) determine the best course of action on behalf of all lenders. Otherwise there is serious risk that the short-termist headless chickens rule the day in a vote (most of whom probably shouldn’t have been putting money into P2P in the first place). Just look at some of the threads on the FS board, where many lenders clamour for guaranteed instant losses via fire sales. As for expecting to be bought out at Par simply because you weren’t asked for an opinion, that’s a nonsense. You cannot appoint someone as your agent and then complain when decisions are made for you. You won't mind accepting 2% for your share whilst I get your other 6% to top mine up to what was agreed then?
Whilst I accept they act as our agent I simply don't accept that they can unilaterally renegotiate my loans on FAR WORSE terms then present them as a fait a complet. If these were really the best terms available then I would say put it to the vote against calling in the security & go with the majority decision. Alternatively relist the new terms on the platform for subscription & use the proceeds to pay out the original holders (rollovers obviously allowed for those satisfied with the terms).
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 971
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Dec 7, 2018 15:52:12 GMT
Re #85: Plenty for sale if anyone wants some - at the current rates, an effective yield of over 16% which seems more than enough for the current risk profile.
As for those objecting - if you've been in this loan since the beginning (or soon thereafter) you could sell at around about 88-90% (which is roughly where the market is right now) and still be fractionally ahead, given the interest you've received. An exit with no loss for a problematic loan? Seems fair to me.
Let the market do its thing...
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 15:59:51 GMT
Re #85: Plenty for sale if anyone wants some - at the current rates, an effective yield of over 16% which seems more than enough for the current risk profile.
As for those objecting - if you've been in this loan since the beginning (or soon thereafter) you could sell at around about 88-90% (which is roughly where the market is right now) and still be fractionally ahead, given the interest you've received. An exit with no loss for a problematic loan? Seems fair to me.
Let the market do its thing...
There's only a couple of hundred quid available between 75-80% to allow an exit so I think you must be looking at the wrong loan.
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 971
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Dec 7, 2018 16:03:38 GMT
Re #85: Plenty for sale if anyone wants some - at the current rates, an effective yield of over 16% which seems more than enough for the current risk profile.
As for those objecting - if you've been in this loan since the beginning (or soon thereafter) you could sell at around about 88-90% (which is roughly where the market is right now) and still be fractionally ahead, given the interest you've received. An exit with no loss for a problematic loan? Seems fair to me.
Let the market do its thing...
There's only a couple of hundred quid available between 75-80% to allow an exit so I think you must be looking at the wrong loan. No, not looking at the wrong loan. Set an offer at around 88% and see what happens (just do it for a token amount if you're curious rather than serious).
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 16:08:22 GMT
There's only a couple of hundred quid available between 75-80% to allow an exit so I think you must be looking at the wrong loan. No, not looking at the wrong loan. Set an offer at around 88% and see what happens (just do it for a token amount if you're curious rather than serious). It will simply sit there until someone undercuts it or until a buyer arrives, the only way to guarantee a sale is to accept a buyers bid, which I repeat has currently £241.85 at an average rate of 77%
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 971
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Dec 7, 2018 16:12:31 GMT
No, not looking at the wrong loan. Set an offer at around 88% and see what happens (just do it for a token amount if you're curious rather than serious). It will simply sit there until someone undercuts it or until a buyer arrives, the only way to guarantee a sale is to accept a buyers bid, which I repeat has currently £241.85 at an average rate of 77% If "guarantee" is important to you then you definitely shouldn't be in P2P!
Go on, have a go. Just a quid if you like. What have you got to lose beyond a couple of pennies? See how it goes over the weekend.
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Dec 7, 2018 16:16:31 GMT
It will simply sit there until someone undercuts it or until a buyer arrives, the only way to guarantee a sale is to accept a buyers bid, which I repeat has currently £241.85 at an average rate of 77% If "guarantee" is important to you then you definitely shouldn't be in P2P!
Go on, have a go. Just a quid if you like. What have you got to lose beyond a couple of pennies? See how it goes over the weekend.
So you are a buyer at 88% ceejay? If I were BC I would bite your hand off, and say thank you very much. The return is only 16% when the capital has been repaid, and there is no known plan for that.
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Dec 7, 2018 16:19:10 GMT
You can list all you like but to secure a sale you NEED A BUYER so 88-90 won't cut it, if you don't believe me try buying some, there's currently £17,351 to go at. I do understand how the SM works, which is why dropping the rate from 14% to 8% without consultation is simply not acceptable - it not only vastly reduces the pre agreed income stream (by over 85% when including bullet instead of amortising) but it totally changes any SM exit strategy for those who may need to sell.
|
|
KoR_Wraith
Member of DD Central
Posts: 293
Likes: 297
|
Post by KoR_Wraith on Dec 7, 2018 16:52:44 GMT
Whilst certainly not an ideal situation, I trust that Ablrate considered all possible options before settling on this one. I appreciate that they have cut their platform fee by 85%; to do otherwise would have been unfathomable. I understand the migration to interest-only repayments however unfortunate; the amortising feature of this loan was key to justifying my investment.
I find it difficult to evaluate the secondary market offerings without knowledge of the company financials, so will wait another couple of weeks before making any selling/purchasing decision.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,924
Likes: 1,191
|
Post by macq on Dec 7, 2018 17:02:29 GMT
Maybe at the new rate it should become the 2nd portfolio loan!
|
|