brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
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Post by brianlom1 on May 19, 2020 12:20:26 GMT
As we said in the email... nothing, apart from the way the SM looks and the additional functionality, will change. Nope, you wont be charged ASM on Ablrate or any otherAs we have said, if you want to just use Ablrate as it is.. then no worriesI think the original plans were not to charge, according to this earlier post, so I suspect the changed financial circumstances may have something to do with it. Several other platforms have introduced (eg Mintos) or increased (eg Landlord Invest) SM fees, though none charge both sides. Assetz of course just has a new AUM fee. Fair enough, you might say, but I don't see how you can dress a new SM charge as increasing liquidity. Well remembered @ifisacava - the Oct 18th post was made by the Ablrate we know and love, the one that puts the interests of lenders first. I appreciate there are a whole host of costs Ablrate have absorbed on our behalf but this in turn has created a company ethos we all buy into, a USP if you will, the platform that does not pass costs on to lenders. I have never understood the fascination with ASMX - it does not address a need I've identified to date and, given the choice, it is not something I would choose to pay for. ablrate - feel free to charge for ASMX if you must but please give us the option to remain on the current UI at zero cost.
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Balder
Member of DD Central
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Post by Balder on May 19, 2020 13:15:46 GMT
Further incentive to move money to Fundsmith which is actually currently up 2.6% since Jan 2020!
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ptr120
Member of DD Central
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Post by ptr120 on May 19, 2020 13:42:08 GMT
Hi ablrate I do buy (and sometimes sell) on the SM, but I frequently invest in new loans - sometimes more that I really want to hold - in the knowledge that I can use the SM to reduce my holding later. If you are going to charge for SM transactions on Ablrate originated loans, I'll simply buy far less as liquidity will be impacted. If you must charge, perhaps the charge should be for seller only (they have already made some money, whereas buyers have yet to make any money). And / or, only apply this to non Ablrate originated loans?
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p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on May 19, 2020 14:04:38 GMT
I think the original plans were not to charge, according to this earlier post, so I suspect the changed financial circumstances may have something to do with it. Several other platforms have introduced (eg Mintos) or increased (eg Landlord Invest) SM fees, though none charge both sides. Assetz of course just has a new AUM fee. Fair enough, you might say, but I don't see how you can dress a new SM charge as increasing liquidity. Well remembered @ifisacava - the Oct 18th post was made by the Ablrate we know and love, the one that puts the interests of lenders first. I appreciate there are a whole host of costs Ablrate have absorbed on our behalf but this in turn has created a company ethos we all buy into, a USP if you will, the platform that does not pass costs on to lenders. I have never understood the fascination with ASMX - it does not address a need I've identified to date and, given the choice, it is not something I would choose to pay for. ablrate - feel free to charge for ASMX if you must but please give us the option to remain on the current UI at zero cost. Totally agree. Not sure why there is so much of a focus on ASMX. It will have inevitably have cost Ablrate a lot of time and cost to integrate ASMX into their platform, for which they have to recover costs by charging fees for using the ASMX, but a fair solution would be to continue the existing SM at its current fee structure so that sellers can continue to use that should they wish. Initiating a fee on all Ablrate secondary market buys and sells would be a very negative development.
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Balder
Member of DD Central
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Post by Balder on May 19, 2020 14:14:31 GMT
If I wanted to invest on another platforms loans I would be on it!
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sapphire
Member of DD Central
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Post by sapphire on May 19, 2020 15:13:41 GMT
Investing via P2P clearly entails a number of risks (borrower risk, security risk, platform risk etc.) even using existing technology which has been running live for a number of years. It is reasonable to expect IT risk to increase as a result of moving to a new sub-system (ASMX), especially one based on recent technology (Blockchain).
Yes, I expect ASMX to be tested before it goes live, but having been closely involved with financial systems software development for a significant time, I am well aware that it is not practically feasible to test typical financial systems 100% (i.e. test every possible logic path) before it is goes live.
Even if ASMX was offered for free, personally I would prefer to wait for sometime until the sub-system & technology have been demonstrated to be running smoothly and issue free, live, for a reasonable period, before deciding if I was comfortable using it.
If I had been told that I would be forced to move to ASMX for a loan I was considering investing in, I would not have invested in it until I was comfortable that the ASMX implementation had been proven to work, live, issue free.
Forcing me to move to ASMX now for an additional fee, having invested in the loan, makes me very uncomfortable, especially having regard to the overall increased risks in the post-COVID environment.
Having been on a profitable journey on the ablrate bus for 3+ years now, after entrusting it with a life changing sum of money, I am afraid my intuition is now telling me to exit at the earliest stop having regard to the approach now planned & being forced upon me.
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ptr120
Member of DD Central
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Post by ptr120 on May 19, 2020 15:45:49 GMT
One other question mark I have about ASMX is about ongoing loan management and recoveries, as well as correct registration of security. I've got reasonable confidence in ABL to do those things correctly - the same can't be said for all players in the market. Therefore I'd want to have lots of information (and confidence) in all of those for a loan not originated on Ablrate. I'd also want to clearly understand what would happen if the security holder went bust - like a certain big player on the South Coast, for example.
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:28:56 GMT
Investing via P2P clearly entails a number of risks (borrower risk, security risk, platform risk etc.) even using existing technology which has been running live for a number of years. It is reasonable to expect IT risk to increase as a result of moving to a new sub-system (ASMX), especially one based on recent technology (Blockchain). Yes, I expect ASMX to be tested before it goes live, but having been closely involved with financial systems software development for a significant time, I am well aware that it is not practically feasible to test typical financial systems 100% (i.e. test every possible logic path) before it is goes live. Even if ASMX was offered for free, personally I would prefer to wait for sometime until the sub-system & technology have been demonstrated to be running smoothly and issue free, live, for a reasonable period, before deciding if I was comfortable using it. If I had been told that I would be forced to move to ASMX for a loan I was considering investing in, I would not have invested in it until I was comfortable that the ASMX implementation had been proven to work, live, issue free. Forcing me to move to ASMX now for an additional fee, having invested in the loan, makes me very uncomfortable, especially having regard to the overall increased risks in the post-COVID environment. Having been on a profitable journey on the ablrate bus for 3+ years now, after entrusting it with a life changing sum of money, I am afraid my intuition is now telling me to exit at the earliest stop having regard to the approach now planned & being forced upon me. ASMX is being built by the guys who built technology for the LSE, at IG Group they were responsible for all global exchanges, market access and Forex IT. At Cantor, one of the developers was head of their IT department and has a degree in Control Theory. They are probably the best developers I have ever come across in knowledge and innovation and I would suggest there are few better in financial exchanges. If you are in financial systems development I suspect you will have come across them in senior positions at some point and worked with their code. So if it is stability of the code you are worried about, we've got you covered. There has been a bot trading on the technology for 6 months+ and it has done literally thousand of trades and errors are logged by a dedicated QA and fixed. I believe your major risk in Covid-19 is liquidity. In any status of a loan (apart from complete right off, and perhaps even then) if you have a liquid market, with many players, there will be a price that someone will buy. If you have a closed market, with limited liquidity you will have price problems, i.e you will have to discount too much to gain that liquidity because or you will have to restrict your market participants from withdrawing money (as you are not getting enough in). One of our lenders suggested that a £60k investment is now paying down at £5 per day... that is not a liquid market. As you point out above, technology gets old and needs updating. ASMX is the update of the SM and then we will be completely rebuilding Ablrate over the next 6 months. The platform will be focused on better data mining, better risk management more diversification options and more accessibility. I would say that when we launched the SM we were given plenty of... err.....'free advice'. Mainly it was a 'flippers paradise', 'against the ethos of P2P', 'too complicated'... and those were the nicer comments! Everytime we have made a change there have been complaints and we fully expect this to be the same but there has been a substantial amount of money invested in this project with some very clever people involved, so before you cash in your chips do have a play with it when its live. But if you do decide to cash in your chips, you will be able to do it quicker and more efficiently.
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on May 19, 2020 16:29:37 GMT
One other question mark I have about ASMX is about ongoing loan management and recoveries, as well as correct registration of security. I've got reasonable confidence in ABL to do those things correctly - the same can't be said for all players in the market. Therefore I'd want to have lots of information (and confidence) in all of those for a loan not originated on Ablrate. I'd also want to clearly understand what would happen if the security holder went bust - like a certain big player on the South Coast, for example. tend to agree - you have a platform where i have seen what they are willing to do to keep a loan on track,how their customer services work,how they respond on here etc.So not quite sure why i would want to buy a loan on the SM from a platform who i have not joined/used and so know none of the above and before i even begin to look at the loan
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:31:30 GMT
If I wanted to invest on another platforms loans I would be on it! That's not it's core functionality, a lender could, in fact never look at a loan on another integrated platform if they wanted to, and restricted investors may not even see another platform. Just as a professional investor may not want to invest in any p2p loans and only balance sheet lenders as an example.
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:34:27 GMT
One other question mark I have about ASMX is about ongoing loan management and recoveries, as well as correct registration of security. I've got reasonable confidence in ABL to do those things correctly - the same can't be said for all players in the market. Therefore I'd want to have lots of information (and confidence) in all of those for a loan not originated on Ablrate. I'd also want to clearly understand what would happen if the security holder went bust - like a certain big player on the South Coast, for example. Again, other platform investment is not the core functionality... but there will not be the ability for a platform to just sign up. There will be a comprehensive on-boarding process for any platform wanting to be involved. ASMX is not for every business model and every platform, it is for those that understand where liquidity and access can take a platform and its lenders.
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:39:22 GMT
Further incentive to move money to Fundsmith which is actually currently up 2.6% since Jan 2020! Diversification is always a good thing.
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:41:33 GMT
I think the original plans were not to charge, according to this earlier post, so I suspect the changed financial circumstances may have something to do with it. Several other platforms have introduced (eg Mintos) or increased (eg Landlord Invest) SM fees, though none charge both sides. Assetz of course just has a new AUM fee. Fair enough, you might say, but I don't see how you can dress a new SM charge as increasing liquidity. Well remembered @ifisacava - the Oct 18th post was made by the Ablrate we know and love, the one that puts the interests of lenders first. I appreciate there are a whole host of costs Ablrate have absorbed on our behalf but this in turn has created a company ethos we all buy into, a USP if you will, the platform that does not pass costs on to lenders. I have never understood the fascination with ASMX - it does not address a need I've identified to date and, given the choice, it is not something I would choose to pay for. ablrate - feel free to charge for ASMX if you must but please give us the option to remain on the current UI at zero cost. As I said previously, we may absorb the costs... but being transparent there is a cost.... nothing is for free.
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Post by ablrate on May 19, 2020 16:51:48 GMT
Thank you for remembering that post. From a personal stand point, I shall be letting my current bidding on loans to buy, expire. Then move the money out, so my action will 'slightly' reduce liquidity. I am not going to bother complaining. I am just grateful that I was able to use such a great secondary market system, when I did. Realising now that I was costing the platform money by adding funds, I am riddled with guilt. Alas I will now have to endure the further turmoil of costing them money by withdrawing. Its an emotional nightmare. Not that anything much is paying anything currently, so I will have time to reflect. It has been obvious for a while that they are looking to move beyond the current base, and a casual comment in a video suggests he has low regard for this forum. Fun while it lasted, but I am ready to get off when my current position unwinds. I doubt the additional paid for benefit I was perfectly happy without has coloured that much either way. A 'low regard for this forum'. Happy for you to criticise the business, the model or me but to suggest we don't value the forum, when we have consistently engaged for for 6 years (some years before yourself) is a little off...
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number5
Member of DD Central
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Post by number5 on May 19, 2020 16:53:45 GMT
ablrate Is there a new timeframe when this is going to go live?
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