mason
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Post by mason on Nov 17, 2018 16:37:35 GMT
I have been somewhat reluctant to post on this matter as of late because many things I write on this forum regarding Collateral seem to get micro-analysed and dissected to the point that they often generate unnecessary rumour, speculation and additional questions. Because of this, it's likely that I'll keep my updates to a brief and more factual nature in future without any personal opinion from myself. I think you are doing a very good job of sharing what you can while observing the NDA you were asked to sign. I would value you continuing to share your personal opinion in relation to aspects of the Administration that you cannot disclose. People are going to ask a lot of questions and try to draw conclusions, and that can be frustrating, but we are all literally heavily invested in what's happening. In that situation, I suppose all you can do is point out that you think someone has got the wrong end of the stick but that you can't say more, as I know you have done up-thread. I'm sure you'll come out of this a highly skilled and precise communicator
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Post by vindhi on Nov 17, 2018 16:47:40 GMT
Totally agree. There must be significant cash holdings (hopefully!) regarding interest alone. Surely this can be repaid? Couple of points: - The bank accounts were reconciled and the amounts weren't in line (this is public knowledge - see the first report) which clearly showed a discrepancy between what was in the "Client" account" and what Collateral records indicated should be in the "Client" account. - BDO do not currently have enough information to reconcile investors / balances / credits on specific loans etc. This would depend on the recovery of the electronic platform data which to the best of my knowledge is still a work in progress. Apologies, you stated "BDO do not currently have enough information to reconcile investors / balances / credits on specific loans etc." Does this mean that BDO don't know how much uninvested cash we each hold, or is it just that they don't know the breakdown of loans that we hold? Thank you for your involvement in the committee.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Nov 17, 2018 17:31:33 GMT
Couple of points: - The bank accounts were reconciled and the amounts weren't in line (this is public knowledge - see the first report) which clearly showed a discrepancy between what was in the "Client" account" and what Collateral records indicated should be in the "Client" account. - BDO do not currently have enough information to reconcile investors / balances / credits on specific loans etc. This would depend on the recovery of the electronic platform data which to the best of my knowledge is still a work in progress. Does this mean that BDO don't know how much uninvested cash we each hold, or is it just that they don't know the breakdown of loans that we hold? As far as I am aware - both. Virtually the entirety of Collateral's business was managed via the electronic platform so restoring it would most likely be the only way to have access to this information. This is why it is such a key focus for the administration.
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Post by vindhi on Nov 17, 2018 17:56:14 GMT
Does this mean that BDO don't know how much uninvested cash we each hold, or is it just that they don't know the breakdown of loans that we hold? As far as I am aware - both. Virtually the entirety of Collateral's business was managed via the electronic platform so restoring it would most likely be the only way to have access to this information. This is why it is such a key focus for the administration. The reason I thought they might know the cash balances is that they know everyone's overall balances (they emailed these to us in the summer), and as I recall when you logged in the overall balance was displayed at the top of the page along with the cash balance figure. Presumably there is a table in the background holding this information, and logically this would be where they got the overall balances from, and that being the case it would seem plausible that they may have the cash balances as well. If you could get specific confirmation one way or the other at the meeting that would be great, though hopefully the six monthly update will confirm.
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Post by p2psavvy on Nov 17, 2018 18:38:01 GMT
The IT platform and data has been recovered and restored, and continuing efforts are being made to create a front end that will enable BDO to manipulate the data in a useful way - BDO do not currently have enough information to reconcile investors / balances / credits on specific loans etc. This would depend on the recovery of the electronic platform data which to the best of my knowledge is still a work in progress. You sounded more positive about it earlier though. As a retired software business owner and programmer with 30+ years experience in designing and managing databases I do not understand why a "front end" is needed to manipulate the data. Front ends are only needed for operators and end users and take a huge amount of time/cost to create. As a back end to a web site, the data schema and engine are the only requirements to access and generate lists and reports on the data. Any half-competent database programmer, with the schema, should be able to throw the data into excel very easily. Thus allowing it to be easily queried. After all, Collateral was a tiny company, how complex could their records have been?
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mason
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Post by mason on Nov 17, 2018 18:51:16 GMT
As far as I am aware - both. Virtually the entirety of Collateral's business was managed via the electronic platform so restoring it would most likely be the only way to have access to this information. This is why it is such a key focus for the administration. The reason I thought they might know the cash balances is that they know everyone's overall balances (they emailed these to us in the summer), and as I recall when you logged in the overall balance was displayed at the top of the page along with the cash balance figure. Presumably there is a table in the background holding this information, and logically this would be where they got the overall balances from, and that being the case it would seem plausible that they may have the cash balances as well. If you could get specific confirmation one way or the other at the meeting that would be great, though hopefully the six monthly update will confirm. This was covered in the initial report. The 'overall funds on the platform' figure for each lender was captured separately and it was this that was used to pre-fill the proof of debt forms. Presumably there was a daily export of this summary information from the platform database while it was live. Edit: it was actually a separate invested and cash figure for each lender. "In respect of the investors, the information that has been retrieved by the Joint Administrators to date contains contact and personal details of the investors, their total exposure to loans on the Companies’ platform, and an analysis of balances held by certain investors on the Companies’ client account (although, as noted above, these balances do not appear to reconcile with the actual balance held on the client account, and the Joint Administrators are investigating the discrepancy)."
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Nov 17, 2018 19:11:13 GMT
The reason I thought they might know the cash balances is that they know everyone's overall balances (they emailed these to us in the summer), and as I recall when you logged in the overall balance was displayed at the top of the page along with the cash balance figure. Presumably there is a table in the background holding this information, and logically this would be where they got the overall balances from, and that being the case it would seem plausible that they may have the cash balances as well. If you could get specific confirmation one way or the other at the meeting that would be great, though hopefully the six monthly update will confirm. This was covered in the initial report. The 'overall funds on the platform' figure for each lender was captured separately and it was this that was used to pre-fill the proof of debt forms. Presumably there was a daily export of this summary information from the platform database while it was live. Edit: it was actually a separate invested and cash figure for each lender. "In respect of the investors, the information that has been retrieved by the Joint Administrators to date contains contact and personal details of the investors, their total exposure to loans on the Companies’ platform, and an analysis of balances held by certain investors on the Companies’ client account (although, as noted above, these balances do not appear to reconcile with the actual balance held on the client account, and the Joint Administrators are investigating the discrepancy)."As I vaguely recall this information was provided to the administrators in a fairly basic format and couldn't be reconciled with the client account as of the last meeting.
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DeafEater
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Post by DeafEater on Nov 17, 2018 21:40:53 GMT
As a retired software business owner and programmer with 30+ years experience in designing and managing databases I do not understand why a "front end" is needed to manipulate the data. Front ends are only needed for operators and end users and take a huge amount of time/cost to create. As a back end to a web site, the data schema and engine are the only requirements to access and generate lists and reports on the data. Any half-competent database programmer, with the schema, should be able to throw the data into excel very easily. Thus allowing it to be easily queried. After all, Collateral was a tiny company, how complex could their records have been? I'm also struggling with what the hell they're playing at. I'm a database designer and programmer by profession and if they have the back end up and running, any decent DBA with a bit of background in how the business worked should be able work out how the schema hangs together and get useful data out of it. This is a much simpler database than most ERP systems and I frequently have to get to grips with those with little or no documentation so the story we've been given to date doesn't make sense. Indeed if the database was properly written, a lot of the data manipulation done by the missing front end would have been handled by parameterised stored procedures in the back end that they've recovered which would make data extraction even easier. Something doesn't smell right.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Nov 17, 2018 23:56:11 GMT
Depending on loans held I’m guessing some are hoping the data is gone. I am really hoping they can reconcile the loans as I’m only in 2 separate senior tranches
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nevace
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Post by nevace on Nov 18, 2018 0:05:13 GMT
As a retired software business owner and programmer with 30+ years experience in designing and managing databases I do not understand why a "front end" is needed to manipulate the data. Front ends are only needed for operators and end users and take a huge amount of time/cost to create. As a back end to a web site, the data schema and engine are the only requirements to access and generate lists and reports on the data. Any half-competent database programmer, with the schema, should be able to throw the data into excel very easily. Thus allowing it to be easily queried. After all, Collateral was a tiny company, how complex could their records have been? I'm also struggling with what the hell they're playing at. I'm a database designer and programmer by profession and if they have the back end up and running, any decent DBA with a bit of background in how the business worked should be able work out how the schema hangs together and get useful data out of it. This is a much simpler database than most ERP systems and I frequently have to get to grips with those with little or no documentation so the story we've been given to date doesn't make sense. Indeed if the database was properly written, a lot of the data manipulation done by the missing front end would have been handled by parameterised stored procedures in the back end that they've recovered which would make data extraction even easier. Something doesn't smell right. I'm a web developer and specialise more in frontend nowadays. There's no way the view logic would be doing any data manipulation, the frontend was basic and it was just presenting the data. I'd love to be able to have access to this so I could just sort it out myself.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 18, 2018 8:01:30 GMT
I'm also struggling with what the hell they're playing at. I'm a database designer and programmer by profession and if they have the back end up and running, any decent DBA with a bit of background in how the business worked should be able work out how the schema hangs together and get useful data out of it. This is a much simpler database than most ERP systems and I frequently have to get to grips with those with little or no documentation so the story we've been given to date doesn't make sense. Indeed if the database was properly written, a lot of the data manipulation done by the missing front end would have been handled by parameterised stored procedures in the back end that they've recovered which would make data extraction even easier. Something doesn't smell right. I'm a web developer and specialise more in frontend nowadays. There's no way the view logic would be doing any data manipulation, the frontend was basic and it was just presenting the data. I'd love to be able to have access to this so I could just sort it out myself. Ditto.
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tommytaylor
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Post by tommytaylor on Nov 18, 2018 10:48:02 GMT
Monetus i think you are doing a grand job and appreciate you giving up your free time to help us all which leads me onto the next question,
I understand there where several of you voted in to form a creditors committee for the investors but how come its you alone that seems to be carrying the can for all this.
What is the rest of the committee doing and why are they not feeding back info or have you been nominated spokesman for the rest of them.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Nov 18, 2018 12:32:45 GMT
Monetus i think you are doing a grand job and appreciate you giving up your free time to help us all which leads me onto the next question, I understand there where several of you voted in to form a creditors committee for the investors but how come its you alone that seems to be carrying the can for all this. What is the rest of the committee doing and why are they not feeding back info or have you been nominated spokesman for the rest of them. I doubt the other members are on this forum. We're just fortunate to have Monetus. We could expect an expeditious conclusion to the process if the administrator's remuneration is a minute percentage of each loan repaid to lenders. As we all know, money talks.
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Nov 18, 2018 18:32:31 GMT
Thanks Monetus, and I am pleased the question is being asked. Like many many others I am a little worried that waiting for one or two loans to be resolved might delay distribution of funds and increase costs.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Nov 18, 2018 19:14:31 GMT
All this talk about "Pence in the Pound", why? Remember this is a public site, read by BDO and The FCA undoubtedly.
For me, I expect a full return of Capital with some Interest as a minimum. Collateral was a profitable company and there's interest rolling in all the time, or there should be.
Collateral didn't go into Administration due to the usual, normal circumstances (insolvency), there's money in the coffers, and being topped up all the time, so why the hell this talk of expecting losses?
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