zlb
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Post by zlb on Nov 22, 2018 10:33:03 GMT
Email that Z users should have received, describing action to make a "debt sale" of long term defaults, not recent defaults. Sounds well managed to me, including attempting to find a Debt purchase company which treats people "fairly and compassionately".
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paule
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Post by paule on Nov 22, 2018 10:34:56 GMT
lol I too have started a thread, says to me Zopa aren't pursuing the debts as well as it could - if it did the buyer of these debts would have nothing left to pursue..
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 22, 2018 10:56:07 GMT
Without know the exact details, it's hard to know if we are getting ripped off by the third party buying the debt. It will definitely be good news if they are buying my debts which borrowers hasn't paid back a single penny.
At the moment, I have 4 borrowers (£240) never paid back a penny, and at least 2.15% of all time zopa plus "investment" only paid back less than 3% capital (of the amount they borrowed) after March 2017.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 22, 2018 16:45:23 GMT
Now if this is the usual 5%-10% sale price then its now that I wished I'd had larger loans -  That said 5-10% will not really please me. Lets see what happens. I'm guessing they will go settled rather than closed so I will be able to spot them easily. |
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zlb
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Debt sale
Nov 22, 2018 21:47:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by zlb on Nov 22, 2018 21:47:26 GMT
The question is, if this is the norm for Z and they have an agreement of x times per year, is it a new p2p PF model?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 23, 2018 6:24:49 GMT
There are bunch of companies like Cabot, Lowell specialise in debt recovery and help thousands of customers every month find a solution to repaying their debts
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Nov 23, 2018 15:40:34 GMT
Probably makes sense. Z's own in house team can be kept small and just focus on 'co-operative' borrowers with difficulties. As the Zopa loan book continues to increase they would eventually end up as a debt collection outfit with a small new loan initiation business attached. My concern is that Zopa's incentive - to get as many as possible of these loans off their books - is not necessarily congruent with ours - to get the best possible price. Zopa is effectively acting as an unpaid agent in this transaction. It would be interesting to know what transparency,is any, there will be. Actually I may ask them just that...
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 26, 2018 16:38:01 GMT
Very interesting that Mrs Aju spotted 2 of her settled accounts had payments at the beginning of this month but I would have thought that Zopa would not be selling on these types of defaults. The date of the last payments is way before they suggested that they were selling the loans.
Since we have between us some £900 currently in default its worrying that over 50% of them are now settled! upon first glances. I'm guessing we won't have much of say in any of this and its a safe bet that it's not Zopa that is going to lose money. As I have said many times before in the past defaults have tended to pay off slightly better than 50% on average of losses (including Interest on the said defaults of course). As defaults seem to be coming in thick and fast now then it might be that I will be better off running down my accounts and re-investing in Ratesetter (My newest toy at the moment) Of course one has to be aware that ratesetter could remove their safety net but at least they still have one.
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Post by propman on Nov 27, 2018 10:35:39 GMT
Very interesting that Mrs Aju spotted 2 of her settled accounts had payments at the beginning of this month... ...re-investing in Ratesetter... Hopefully this will mean that they were doing extra work trying to get money out of defaults before the sale to reduce the sale of easily recoverable amounts and push up the price of the rest by renewing the contacts and resetting the 6 year recovery clock.
I fear that some of the Settled might not have been sold, but may be the unsaleable loans that are not worth Zopa chasing (ie no current addresses, abroad, bankrupt DROs etc.).
On examining the over 100 loans in my portfolio recently settled plenty are in the above categories so I expect little or nothing from their sale. However there are also a significant number where the last updates were encouraging (eg arrangement agreed in August). So either Zopa have not kept us informed, or the sale is wider than their note suggests and includes reasonable prospects.
Forgive me for missing your earlier threads, but my recoveries have rarely reached 50% for any defaults despite my first running into problems in late 2010. So either you have been lucky or I have been unlucky. It may well be that Collections yield 50% (or though I would guess less), but this would include a significant number going onto arrangements or back on time. Once they get to Default, I have found less than 30% pay anything back and many of these pay little.
As said on ratesetter threads, the Rs model is akin to a precipice bond. It will pay back a generous amount but has the potential (arguably near certainty within the next decade or so) to collapse and lose significant interest and possibly capital as well. I believe this would be the end of RS as I can't see why anyone would deliberately lend when no interest is being paid on the loans. temporarily their will be untracked money auto-relending, but I expect a lot of publicity so that this reduces significantly. That said I still lend on it although will not lend below 6% on 5 years and am looking for at least 6.2% before putting more money in.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 27, 2018 23:17:11 GMT
Very interesting that Mrs Aju spotted 2 of her settled accounts had payments at the beginning of this month... ...re-investing in Ratesetter... Hopefully this will mean that they were doing extra work trying to get money out of defaults before the sale to reduce the sale of easily recoverable amounts and push up the price of the rest by renewing the contacts and resetting the 6 year recovery clock.
I fear that some of the Settled might not have been sold, but may be the unsaleable loans that are not worth Zopa chasing (ie no current addresses, abroad, bankrupt DROs etc.).
On examining the over 100 loans in my portfolio recently settled plenty are in the above categories so I expect little or nothing from their sale. However there are also a significant number where the last updates were encouraging (eg arrangement agreed in August). So either Zopa have not kept us informed, or the sale is wider than their note suggests and includes reasonable prospects.
Forgive me for missing your earlier threads, but my recoveries have rarely reached 50% for any defaults despite my first running into problems in late 2010. So either you have been lucky or I have been unlucky. It may well be that Collections yield 50% (or though I would guess less), but this would include a significant number going onto arrangements or back on time. Once they get to Default, I have found less than 30% pay anything back and many of these pay little.
As said on ratesetter threads, the Rs model is akin to a precipice bond. It will pay back a generous amount but has the potential (arguably near certainty within the next decade or so) to collapse and lose significant interest and possibly capital as well. I believe this would be the end of RS as I can't see why anyone would deliberately lend when no interest is being paid on the loans. temporarily their will be untracked money auto-relending, but I expect a lot of publicity so that this reduces significantly. That said I still lend on it although will not lend below 6% on 5 years and am looking for at least 6.2% before putting more money in.
... On the 50% recoveries In the old days I had less defaults 38 to be precise mostly in the pre-safeguard era and if I include the interest and the payments covered then I did get a bit over 50% on those. I would say it does include all the interest on them too - I'm not as confident on the newer ones though just when we upped out investment Zopa goes and sell them off. What I should also say is these defaults date back as far as 2009 and up to 2014 I had 33 loans in default with £143 outstanding on total of 327 lent. this gives outstanding default value of 43% of total lent. If I then factor in the interest lent on those loans of £60.81. Then these loans will still have 31% outstanding that I will have lost as result of these. We lent on Classic for some time and then looking at more recent Plus loans and Core Loans on a much larger lending scale there are the following 2016 20 defaulted Plus loans with 79% defaulted value outstanding 2017 20 defaulted Plus and 53 Core 87% defaulted value outstanding 2018 08 defaulted Plus and 08 Core 96% defaulted value outstanding From my perspective these things do take time and whilst I cannot be certain that in say a further 6 years that these loans will be at a similar level to those previously I'm betting the value I get from the the sold loans will not cover much of this. I'm not sure I am any luckier than anyone else but I take your point.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 27, 2018 23:51:19 GMT
One of my recently "settled" loan borrowers repaid 62% of the amount he borrowed. Loan started in 2017. He repaid a large chunk after the default some time ago, but the loan was only marked as "settled" in the last few days.
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