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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 10, 2018 17:40:20 GMT
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macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,924
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Post by macq on Dec 10, 2018 19:49:43 GMT
More feedback on here is always welcome so without sounding negative as i am on board in a small way i have a question. Just wondering with some of the notes/bonds are they not yielding more due to the drop in price such as Lowell, AA & New Look and is there not a danger of some not paying back? - i.e House Of Fraser seems to be in limbo
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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 10, 2018 20:42:56 GMT
Hi macq, the price drops have a lot to do with the weaker bond market right now due to the Brexit uncertainty. Which also means it is a good time to buy over the holiday season as our honorable friends bicker and lock in a good rate. The companies which have had more financial performance weakness are the ones most affected as they are percieved to be riskier but its all risk/reward. Having said that lowell is still growing strongly even though the senior secureds are 12%. Just in the wrong sector - consumer debt. Translated, if P2P consumer debt was trading in a secondary market with price based decision makers it would likely trade at much higher yields. Note, its no coincidence goldmans is taking its foot off the gas in consumer lending via ita marcus lending unit.....And obviously in a hard brexit SME lending would be hit severely.
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on Dec 10, 2018 20:49:00 GMT
ok thanks for that and any thoughts on where the HOF bonds are heading?
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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 10, 2018 22:59:47 GMT
Sale proceeds should be applied shortly in two distributions which will be +/-20
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cb25
Posts: 3,521
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Post by cb25 on Dec 11, 2018 8:07:14 GMT
Hi Guys, I thought you might find this blog post we just sent out interesting. Will have more time soon to devote to the forum if folks are interested in learning more about bonds. Best, WiseAlpha PS. tagging some regular posters on this forum to get the discussion going - hope you don't mind! Interested to hear from more of you. I've had money in corporate bonds in the past, albeit only via the Unit Trust/OEIC route, have never invested at the individual company level. Having said that, I had a look at your site, got a number of very well known companies (which I hope would be there in years to come) at attractive yields. Not sure I could get the diversity I'd want in terms of the number of companies though.
Not sure I'd want to invest in Wisealpha Notes. Also, I couldn't find any Statistics on your site, e.g. number of investors, amount invested, typical returns/year, defaults/year,...
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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 11, 2018 9:34:06 GMT
Hi cb25, worth pointing out a few things:
- the range of bonds on our site from ig to high yield and perps tends to be wider than vanilla managed vehicles which tend to have a high concentration in financials and index's. And rather than investing in shares of a vehicle you are investing in debt securities with a maturity date and where you can mix and match. For example if you like P2P then consumer credit plays like Lowell are interesting and more rewarding - diversity is also increasing as we have had over 75 names on the site and increasing. Also our Robowise service continues to diversify you over time so we'll end up with a 100 or so names - there is embedded industry diversification in the asset class i.e. there are companies from different industries rather than a concentrated exposure to consumer lending for example. Even some of the big consumer credit firms on our aite have a portfolio thats diversified over hundreds of thousands of borrowers. Plus there is detailed company reporting. Just think how much time people spend teying to get info about defaulted p2p loans in their portfolio and getting transparent info - our Notes allow you to invest in small size and choose individual bonds to get exposure to you couldnt otherwise buy becuase of high minimum purchase sizes. Not much difference to investing in a manager or platform and its less admin hassle as we deal with consent requests etc.allowing you to focus on the economic exposure. Lending club also offers a Notes structure for example - in terms of stats we have over 15m (increasing faster now), one default although we are focussed on providing a reflection of the market like a stock exchange (last year default losses for the market were around 1.5%) and 5,000 registered members. In terms of returns these instruments are best viewed on a 3-5 year basis as prices can move up or down with market sentiment but tend to average out at 5-8 % across the segments of debt type we offer. The long run return per the blog article in just under 9% per annum for the high yield as a whole with investment grade lower at around 6.
I hope that helps.
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stevio
Member of DD Central
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Post by stevio on Dec 11, 2018 12:32:54 GMT
From my uninformed view, this seems to be the equivalent of buying individual shares in a company Vs an index tracker, with the same reasoning behind one over the other
Currently only invest in index trackers and with only a very small amount in individual shares, where my index choice is doing fine, my ability to choose shares seems to be far from find. Therefore I doubt I would be any better in my bond choice
One question, is the return considered to be interest for tax purposes?
I would be interested (in lamens terms I can relate too, rather than financial marketing "waffle") in the differences (pluses really) here between WiseAlpha and my Fund Supermarket?
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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 11, 2018 17:05:01 GMT
Hi Stevio,
All of our products are debt instruments and pay interest income. Just think of it like P2P lending but with higher returns (right now) and bigger companies with the only difference that prices can move up or down until maturity arrives. Investing in individual bonds is less risky than stocks because you know the maturity date when you get the face value of the bond back and they rank ahead of shares. Shares are more difficult to understand because everyone values a company differently. Plus high yield bonds have massively outperformed equities over the last 20 years as shown in the blog post.
If you don't like prices moving up or down our smart interest product is effectively like the bonds that Wellesley and others offer with a fixed rate, fixed return and no price movements.
General difference between a fund (in a fund supermarket) versus WiseAlpha products:
- WiseAlpha products offer bonds and high income products, rather than a share in a fund. Think of us as a bond stock exchange.
- Many retail bond funds don't invest in the range of corporate bonds WiseAlpha offer and many invest in London ORB stock exchange bonds or low yielding investment grade bonds with low returns and long maturities. Our Smart Interest product is attractive because you can earn 7% without price movements up or down. Think of Smart Interest as like a fund but with fixed annual returns
- You have more choice in the way you invest and can invest in small sizes regularly without lots of transaction fees.
Capital at Risk.
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cb25
Posts: 3,521
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Post by cb25 on Dec 16, 2018 17:35:50 GMT
If I understand the charges correctly - 1% of money invested - that's a huge proportion on low yield bonds.
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Post by Wisealpha on Dec 17, 2018 19:00:23 GMT
Hi cb25, I would say a few things: - Our fees aren't out of line with other investment managers or robo-advisors and we are looking to balance a sustainable business with value for our members - We do offer zero fees on some low yielding bonds to encourage investment in lower return/risk bonds - Look out for our valued member policy in the new year where if you refer enough people you can earn yourself zero fees for life! - I think we are pretty good when you consider that a lot of the P2P platforms you are used to offer out lower rates (versus what is charged to the borrower either in the way of higher rates than offered or other fees) and so you are implicitly charged fees because the returns you get aren't precisely representative of the risk. For example one P2P lender is pretty transparent about the fact that it charges its property borrowers around 8% for the loan and you the investor get around 4%. It's a bit like us saying - here is the Vue bond returning 8% - but if you invest you only get 4% - We do provide access to one of the best asset classes (see our post comparing the return on equities over the last 20 years versus high yield bonds - medium.com/wisealphateam/the-superiority-of-corporate-bonds-why-now-is-a-good-time-to-buy-5c4cd3722427) so that people can gain exposure to individual bonds they wouldn't otherwise be able to get exposure to because of £100k to £200k minimum buy sizes. I hope that helps. Kind regards, WiseAlpha Team
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