cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 6, 2019 15:08:52 GMT
"[Obesity] is not a lifestyle choice caused by individual greed but a disease caused by health inequalities, genetic influences and social factors. Professor Andrew Goddard, RCP president"
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Even if it's true there's a genetic influence, obese people have made/do make lifestyle choices, i.e. continuing to eat too much.
Views?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 6, 2019 15:44:02 GMT
If Prof Andy Goddard is arguing that stupid fat people shouldn't be allowed to have children surely these days that constitutes some sort of racist, misogynistic, or other phobic hate crime?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 6, 2019 15:49:05 GMT
If Prof Andy Goddard is arguing that stupid fat people shouldn't be allowed to have children surely these days that constitutes some sort of racist, misogynistic, or other phobic hate crime? If he'd said anything along those lines it might well be a crime, but AFAIA he didn't so there's no problem.
I believe the gist of his argument is that blaming (only) obese people for their condition doesn't deliver the desired results, so perhaps obesity should be viewed differently. I wonder whether that'll give people an opt-out "told you it wasn't my fault, it's my genes and/or the environment did it to me"
"The RCP said it wants to see obesity recognised as an ongoing chronic disease to allow the creation of formal policies to improve care both in doctors’ surgeries and hospitals, and so that significant and far-reaching preventative measures can be put in place."
“It is governments, not individuals, which can have an impact on the food environment through regulation and taxation, and by controlling availability and affordability,” Prof Goddard added.
“Governments can also promote physical activity by ensuring that facilities are available to local communities, and through legislation and public health initiatives.”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 16:18:24 GMT
Each individual's "food environment" is the result of an individual's choice. That the law allows individuals to make stupid decisions does not mean that it is the law's fault that those decisions are made. That does not mean that the general environment could not be improved but really it is like blaming the man who saves your life for all your problems and such ideas went out of life's normal view about the time the British Empire sank below the horizon.
Individuals decide not to exercise, decide what they eat and decide on their food education level. That society allows them to chose wrong and the NHS then picks up the pieces does not absolve the individual from their own responsibility.
It is impossible to legislate against stupidity.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 6, 2019 16:41:17 GMT
Though a strategy of 'obesity is a disease' might lead to more people coming forward to be put on the right track, I think it's too close to absolving people of individual responsibility. A similar argument might (has?) been made for violence. Men in particular are 'programmed' with a tendency for violence, but that doesn't mean they can inflict violence and be blameless when it's clear they made a conscious decision to do so.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Jan 6, 2019 16:59:16 GMT
Lifestyle choice, clearly, except in a true minority of cases. It is also "hereditary", which is not fair on the children.
About 4 years ago I began eating more or what I enjoy eating, which has inevitably been on the unhealthier end of the spectrum. I immediately and consistently put on weight, and from being rather slim originally I was heading towards becoming obese. I put my hands in the air -- this was entirely my own lifestyle choice. I do not seek to blame any food manufacturer for making unhealthy food (indeed, thank you to them or making yummy food!). Nor do I blame my body or brain for "being that way": it was a conscious decision that I was 100% in control of. I did what felt good, and paid the price.
As a New Year Resolution, I have gone back to much healthier eating. Nothing else changed, I have just cut down on the obviously fatty and sugary food. Already the pounds are falling off. It has not been easy, but the rewards are showing already. So: lifestyle choice, conscious, controllable with a bit of will power, absolutely.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 6, 2019 17:05:05 GMT
No deal Brexit should ensure that we will have to eat a third of our population until Tesco manages to restock its shelves
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Post by wildlife2 on Jan 6, 2019 17:39:10 GMT
Was there any obesity in the Stone Age? probably not as humans had to run around to catch their food in order to survive. People expect help with anything these days, instead of doing more to help themselves. I suppose cave-dwellers didn't have any chocolate cake in their pantry either
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 6, 2019 17:39:18 GMT
Some people may be genetically predisposed to putting on weight, but for all obese people the equation is straightforward. Eat less and you will lose weight (although I accept that eating less is not necessarily easy).
For those that blame their predicament on medical issues (or similar) look at the pictures of soldiers being liberated from concentration camps after world war 2. You don't see any of them weighing 18st because they had a water retention problem
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 6, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
Some people may be genetically predisposed to putting on weight, but for all obese people the equation is straightforward. Eat less and you will lose weight (although I accept that eating less is not necessarily easy).
For those that blame their predicament on medical issues (or similar) look at the pictures of soldiers being liberated from concentration camps after world war 2. You don't see any of them weighing 18st because they had a water retention problem
I sort of agree but a bit harsh, I also agree with Dr Phil (I know) if a women has no dresses larger than size 18 she wont get bigger than size 18, similarly for men if your waist size is 40 at least don't buy anything bigger because it feels so comfortable. If you start buying bigger clothes you will not feel the necessity to cut down 'just a bit' to at least keep to your current size/weight. Too late for some.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jan 6, 2019 18:02:59 GMT
Some people may be genetically predisposed to putting on weight, but for all obese people the equation is straightforward. Eat less and you will lose weight (although I accept that eating less is not necessarily easy).
For those that blame their predicament on medical issues (or similar) look at the pictures of soldiers being liberated from concentration camps after world war 2. You don't see any of them weighing 18st because they had a water retention problem
..I also agree with Dr Phil (I know) if a women has no dresses larger than size 18 she wont get bigger than size 18, similarly for men if your waist size is 40 at least don't buy anything bigger because it feels so comfortable. Except...the women buying size 20+ dresses, or the men with waist size 42+, weren't born that way, they transitioned through size 18/waist 40 respectively.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 6, 2019 18:10:44 GMT
Each individual's "food environment" is the result of an individual's choice. That the law allows individuals to make stupid decisions does not mean that it is the law's fault that those decisions are made. That does not mean that the general environment could not be improved but really it is like blaming the man who saves your life for all your problems and such ideas went out of life's normal view about the time the British Empire sank below the horizon.
Individuals decide not to exercise, decide what they eat and decide on their food education level. That society allows them to chose wrong and the NHS then picks up the pieces does not absolve the individual from their own responsibility.
It is impossible to legislate against stupidity. Probably right @bobo, but, for a start, fat, smoking fornicators should certainly pay higher NI contributions. That'll rev up a few of you out there!!!
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Jan 6, 2019 18:16:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 18:22:36 GMT
I get the right wing "please reduce our taxes" email every week and once again they are complaining that there is a nanny state telling them how fat people are none of our business and we should let them just drown in sugar if they want to. I'd agree but I need these snowflakes to be fit enough to fight in our army, serve in our navy and to not swamp our NHS with fat people illnesses. Really with the right and left both thinking that fat people have no duties to the rest of us!!! Just get a grip and lose weight it isn't rocket science, eat less, start with sugar and salt and work your way up from there.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 6, 2019 19:51:30 GMT
for a start, fat, smoking fornicators should certainly pay higher NI contributions. A thorny issue to address.
Should somebody who has self inflicted health problems (caused by diet, smoking or alcohol) still get treated for free on the NHS? Can't be arsed to go on a diet? Don't worry sir the NHS will pay £6k for your gastric band surgery.
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