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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 5, 2019 9:08:13 GMT
....There didn't seem to be a need for a full physical barrier.... there is a need - because a politician promised one.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 5, 2019 9:33:12 GMT
There was an interesting programme on tv about the US Mexican border, it seems there is a lot of high tech monitoring, high resolution long distance cctv surveillance (night vision, heat sensing stuff as well) in the remote areas with rapid response border guards to intercept people trying to cross. There are short sections of barriers in some high population high risk places. There didn't seem to be a need for a full physical barrier. I might have seen the same programme. The one I watched showed a mother and child walking along the wall in order to find the gap where that section ended. I accept it's probably not cost effective and most drugs come in hidden in vehicles via the official crossings, but the barrier clearly did work where it existed as she had to find a gap (and there wouldn't be one with a wall coast-to-coast).
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 5, 2019 9:51:28 GMT
There was an interesting programme on tv about the US Mexican border, it seems there is a lot of high tech monitoring, high resolution long distance cctv surveillance (night vision, heat sensing stuff as well) in the remote areas with rapid response border guards to intercept people trying to cross. There are short sections of barriers in some high population high risk places. There didn't seem to be a need for a full physical barrier. I might have seen the same programme. The one I watched showed a mother and child walking along the wall in order to find the gap where that section ended. I accept it's probably not cost effective and most drugs come in hidden in vehicles via the official crossings, but the barrier clearly did work where it existed as she had to find a gap (and there wouldn't be one with a wall coast-to-coast). Did they actually get into the US or were they picked up by border guards?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 5, 2019 10:11:32 GMT
I might have seen the same programme. The one I watched showed a mother and child walking along the wall in order to find the gap where that section ended. I accept it's probably not cost effective and most drugs come in hidden in vehicles via the official crossings, but the barrier clearly did work where it existed as she had to find a gap (and there wouldn't be one with a wall coast-to-coast). Did they actually get into the US or were they picked up by border guards? They got about a foot into the US where the guys were waiting at the gap. However, if there was no wall, there wouldn't be enough guards to cover the whole border.
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Post by martin44 on Mar 5, 2019 16:48:57 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Mar 5, 2019 17:05:02 GMT
Yeah I understand that. I'm just not sure that comparing a 1 km long wall, in an urban area, around a port of exit / entry and that is already closely monitored is necessarily a valid comparison with a wall through a desert that, if fully built, is going to be some 3000 km long.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 5, 2019 17:21:56 GMT
Yeah I understand that. I'm just not sure that comparing a 1 km long wall, in an urban area, around a port of exit / entry and that is already closely monitored is necessarily a valid comparison with a wall through a desert that, if fully built, is going to be some 3000 km long. Given its location, however long it is or isn't, it won't be measured in km .....
EDIT: OOps. Apparently ONE side of it will be......
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Post by martin44 on Mar 5, 2019 23:05:11 GMT
Yeah I understand that. I'm just not sure that comparing a 1 km long wall, in an urban area, around a port of exit / entry and that is already closely monitored is necessarily a valid comparison with a wall through a desert that, if fully built, is going to be some 3000 km long. My point was nothing to do with comparing the length of walls, it was about the perspective posed around the fact that when "trump" mentions a wall, it makes months/years of headlines and a record govt shutdown.. when this sort of thing happens in Europe, and indeed elsewhere in the world, it attracts almost no interest. such as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier. If a govt feels the need to erect a fence/wall to protect it's citizens then so be it.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 6, 2019 7:59:05 GMT
Yeah I understand that. I'm just not sure that comparing a 1 km long wall, in an urban area, around a port of exit / entry and that is already closely monitored is necessarily a valid comparison with a wall through a desert that, if fully built, is going to be some 3000 km long. My point was nothing to do with comparing the length of walls, it was about the perspective posed around the fact that when "trump" mentions a wall, it makes months/years of headlines and a record govt shutdown.. when this sort of thing happens in Europe, and indeed elsewhere in the world, it attracts almost no interest. such as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier. If a govt feels the need to erect a fence/wall to protect it's citizens then so be it. Actually, the Hungarian barrier attracted significant coverage at the time - much of it adverse. But there are some differences: 1. The US govt does not "feel the need to erect a fence/wall to protect it's citizens". A majority in both Congress and the Senate are against Trump's wall. Trump is not the govt. Trump's petulant and quite possibly unconstitutional actions to get his way are what much of the current press coverage is about. 2. The Hungarian govt under Orban is openly racist/xenophobic. Trump pretends he's not. 3. At the time, Europe faced a largely uncontrolled migrant/refugee "crisis". It's more controlled now. By contrast, as others have noted, there is no such crisis in the US. Numbers are well down on what they have been and only a small minority cross illegally where Trump would build his wall. 4. The parts of the US/Mexico border that need a wall already have one. For the rest, it would be far more cost-effective to spend the money where it IS needed: on upgrading customs and border forces - most importantly drug checks at ports of entry. 5. The Hungarian fence was built quickly and relatively cheaply. Coverage naturally dies away once it's done.
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