radar
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Post by radar on Feb 20, 2019 21:35:35 GMT
Email detailing new Terms and Conditions to come into effect 20 March
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Post by akagi on Feb 20, 2019 23:24:33 GMT
Yes I have received it as well. Any thoughts?
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 21, 2019 14:56:07 GMT
So the link in the email details the following statement ... So i looked at all the links and all the documents and it a mystery to me how to accept the above terms without sight of the said terms until the day they are assumed to be accepted. Am I missing something here, have I missed a link or what. I've not read the original terms for a while and obviously I have not read the new terms as they are not available. Why do these companies have to hide the terms they must already be written and are not about to be changed without having to go back round the look so why are they not available for us to read them properly and in correct context. The last 2 items on the list are in particular vague as to what is changing until the terms are available I guess. Any thoughts anyone - perhaps RateSetter might have some answers ...
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Post by drphil on Feb 21, 2019 18:16:11 GMT
Am I missing something here, have I missed a link or what. No I don't think you are. You raise a very good point.
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 21, 2019 18:28:14 GMT
I've sent them an email now and asked how I might make a decision based on a doc that doesn't actually seem to appear until the date I have to decide if I am happy. That said RS doesn't really lose that much if anything if I decided to quit and even that's highly unlikely. So for me it's more about being open and honest with me as a customer who deserves to have all the info they want me to base decisions on.
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 22, 2019 16:49:53 GMT
Ok, I've had a first reply from "RateSetter Customer Service", apparently the full terms have not yet been released and are expected to be announced on 20th March 2019 and they will be available to view on the website once they have been released.
I've clearly bounced this back at them and suggested that its unreasonable to release these terms and also expect me or anyone else to accept them on the same day. Especially as they are assuming I will have accepted them if I have not contacted them before 20th March 2019.
Does anyone know if they are breaking any current FCA rules by doing things in this confusing way. It seems to me to be unreasonable to not provide time to understand T&C's properly especially what with the confusion already in other threads regarding the PF numbers and descriptions etc.
Any thoughts gratefully received
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Feb 22, 2019 21:15:59 GMT
What happens if I do not accept the new terms?
Normally, if an organisation unilaterally changes the terms to which a consumer has agreed, then the consumer has the option to exit the contract without penalty. Should I therefore expect the option to sell out my entire RS position without paying the usual fees? They rule it out in their notice, but that does not sit well with The Law.
I'm just a bit concerned about the direction of the PF, so I would consider an easy get-out.
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 22, 2019 23:56:29 GMT
What happens if I do not accept the new terms?
Normally, if an organisation unilaterally changes the terms to which a consumer has agreed, then the consumer has the option to exit the contract without penalty. Should I therefore expect the option to sell out my entire RS position without paying the usual fees? They rule it out in their notice, but that does not sit well with The Law.
I'm just a bit concerned about the direction of the PF, so I would consider an easy get-out.
This is another flakey area too, I'm not sure of what the consequences are for skipping early they say ... I can't make head nor tail of what that means, seems that you cannot bail without paying the early access fee so not sure what consequences RS are forgoing for the terms changes that to be honest you cannot fulfil until after they release them which in turn is after the notification date anyway. What that all means is way beyond my meagre intelligence....
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Post by gravitykillz on Feb 23, 2019 9:01:21 GMT
Join the club.....
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Feb 23, 2019 9:19:56 GMT
I think that if T&C change you have the right, under consumer law, to exit with no penalty. Doesn’t affect me but if I were you I would check this out, as I’m pretty sure it’s correct.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 23, 2019 11:08:47 GMT
I think that if T&C change you have the right, under consumer law, to exit with no penalty. Doesn’t affect me but if I were you I would check this out, as I’m pretty sure it’s correct. I guess the T&Cs are changing for future loans, and current loans are unaffected, so if you want them out it's at your expense. There was a get out free on the previous big changes in T&Cs but those changes did affect current loans as well.
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Stonk
Stonking
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Post by Stonk on Feb 24, 2019 23:32:49 GMT
I think that if T&C change you have the right, under consumer law, to exit with no penalty. Doesn’t affect me but if I were you I would check this out, as I’m pretty sure it’s correct. I guess the T&Cs are changing for future loans, and current loans are unaffected, so if you want them out it's at your expense. There was a get out free on the previous big changes in T&Cs but those changes did affect current loans as well.
I doubt they will have managed to comprehensively rewrite the T&Cs without it having some impact on how existing accounts function. And as soon as the changes affect what I presently have, then the consumer law get-out should kick in.
For example, they have changed the way Market Rate is calculated. This affects many existing portfolios, in particular those configured with automatic reinvestment at Market Rate (which we are told is most of them).
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 28, 2019 10:35:17 GMT
So I emailed further and queried if this was within the FCA rules but the response was just it was being released on the 20th March. So I bounced it back again with further questions and proposing that it might be a little bit odd that we cannot accept the terms before they are released. Back it came with same answer, "...released on the 20th March 2019". I've now replied asking for it to be looked at by the RS regulatory team if one exists and I've copied the CEO in on the emails as well but not expecting much from him if anything at all. I've asked them to consider why I am wrong in expecting reasonable time to read the as yet unreleased terms document before I go banging on the FCA door not holding out much hope though if I'm honest. What I find interesting though is that this basic simple thing leads me to wonder if RS is perhaps hiding something, this is probably not fair but hey silence in these ways and not explaining I am either wrong or why I have to accept something I cannot see seems pretty easy to me but I'm new to the odd ways of RS. Let's hope my pressing them in this way does not mean I will be barred from lending with them. Nothing still from RateSetter on this one either but to be fair its probably not their remit to get involved in this level. I'm not expecting RS to relent on this so if anyone knows the compliance section of the regulations they have to abide by then feel free to chip in. Failing being able to check this myself the FCA will be very helpful in this I'm sure.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Feb 28, 2019 11:32:02 GMT
I have emailed the FCA and copied in Ratesetter. The FCA usually get back quickly when I have asked them queries in the past, within 2 working days. Just a simple question out of curiosity more than anything else for me. I will post any response I get. Perhaps RateSetter could follow up internally as well if they see this. ----------- Hi I have a query about Ratesetter. They are introducing a new set of terms and conditions on the 20th March. However they won't let us see them until the 20th March and expect us to agree to them before seeing them. Is there anything in the FCA rules about customers seeing Terms and Conditions before having to accept them? www.ratesetter.com/notice-of-changes-to-the-Investor-Terms-20190220I have copied in Ratesetter. Many thanks
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 28, 2019 12:23:19 GMT
I have emailed the FCA and copied in Ratesetter. The FCA usually get back quickly when I have asked them queries in the past, within 2 working days. Just a simple question out of curiosity more than anything else for me. Perhaps RateSetter could follow up internally as well if they see this. ----------- Hi I have a query about Ratesetter. They are introducing a new set of terms and conditions on the 20th March. However they won't let us see them until the 20th March and expect us to agree to them before seeing them. Is there anything in the FCA rules about customers seeing Terms and Conditions before having to accept them? www.ratesetter.com/notice-of-changes-to-the-Investor-Terms-20190220I have copied in Ratesetter. Many thanks Thanks jlend for sharing this, I agree with you and it will save me the bother of poking them if RS don't respond as I requested.
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