IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 4, 2019 15:50:06 GMT
I think a radical upheaval of the NHS ethos away from free at the point of charge probably doesn't count as common sense, and neither does either punitive taxation rates or punitive austerity. It would be up to a "non common sense" party to make those suggestions and if they were elected on them then fair enough. As it happens, we have two non common sense parties who have represented those two poles on taxation. So I think there is a common sense, incremental change middle ground, with a liberal ethos - think Trudeau in Canada for example, who also adds the photogenic part - and a gap in the UK for this at the moment.
"Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has refused to stand down over claims he interfered to help a construction firm that allegedly bribed Muanmar Gadaffi's regime to avoid a corruption trial.
The political scandal gripping Mr Trudeau's Liberal Party began when his former justice minister claimed on Wednesday that she had been pressured to drop the prosecution of SNC-Lavin, a construction firm in the prime minister's home province."
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"A former Canadian justice minister says she faced attempts at interference and "veiled threats" from top government officials seeking a legal favour for a firm facing a corruption trial.
Jody Wilson-Raybould said she was pressed repeatedly to "find a solution" for engineering giant SNC-Lavalin.
PM Justin Trudeau said he disagreed with the minister's testimony and he and his staff acted appropriately."
No - the one until February. And even liberal, common sense, photogenic politicians get some things wrong some of the time. Our UK politicians currently get most things wrong most of the time.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 4, 2019 15:54:37 GMT
Arguably the Gang of Four achieved dragging Labour back into the mainstream centre-left, I think that is probably a fair comment, although the departure of the 4 did little for their career prospects, except possibly David Owen (who received much publicity via spitting image for his domineering relationship with David Steel when they formed the Lib Dems). and which arguably ended David Steel's career as a serious politician. I remember it well.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Mar 4, 2019 16:54:36 GMT
"Do not pass AV referendum (let alone full PR legislated for), do not pass 'GO', do not collect 200 any (safe) seats"
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 5, 2019 8:56:42 GMT
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 5, 2019 9:46:49 GMT
Yeah, not looking the best. May have to get the next sensible, photogenic liberal in line.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 10, 2019 12:04:18 GMT
Seems that Chuka Umunna has published a 50-page 'manifesto' pamphlet. Can't find it anywhere. Edit: see link in post below provided by iRobot (thanks).
"The idea was to "start a national conversation" rather than offer "prescriptive policies", Mr Umunna wrote. These include: -A new form of ‘Public Benefit Companies’ putting public benefit at the heart of utilities -Ending excessive pay in the board room -Introducing means-testing tuition fees to support students who need most support and re-introducing maintenance grants. This would allow resources for a 'skills revolution' campaign backed by serious money and a Minister sitting in Cabinet -Equalising rates of tax on income and dividends and using the proceeds to fund universal childcare -Hypothecated NHS tax to help it meet the needs of an ageing society -Introducing compulsory ‘Citizen’s Service’ for school leavers -State funding of political parties"
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 10, 2019 12:26:01 GMT
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 11, 2019 10:16:58 GMT
"Replace the personal allowance of income tax with a weekly payment equal to the value of tax that would otherwise be paid on the full £12,500 of personal allowance. For 2019/20, this payment would be worth £48.08 per week in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, or £2,500 per year."
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Another case of more tax on the better off to provide a give-away to the less well off.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 29, 2019 13:26:24 GMT
Apparently yes for the time being. Applied to register as Change UK - The Independent Group. Not thought that through ... instant slogan for opponents ChUK TIGAs OUT. Presumably Chuka Ummuna's vanity was such that he wanted his name reflected in the party name. 😂
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Mar 30, 2019 0:21:12 GMT
Apparently yes for the time being. Applied to register as Change UK - The Independent Group. Strange name given that they don't want to change our EU status, nor change from the Blair/Cameron consensus of most of the last 20 years. (I don't necessarily disagree with them on the last point, but I'm not sure Change is the right name.)
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 30, 2019 12:10:53 GMT
For what it's worth, I think Change UK a really sad, unimaginative name. I also think there is not the political space for this party, the Lib Dems and the Greens to contest the tiny centre ground in an unrepresentative electoral system curated and jealously guarded by the two megaliths, Labour and Conservative.
Because the Green Party programme is the only one that starts to look honestly at the issue that will dominate the rest of the 21st Century, my view is that the other two should wind themselves into that.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Mar 31, 2019 8:17:44 GMT
For what it's worth, I think Change UK a really sad, unimaginative name. I also think there is not the political space for this party, the Lib Dems and the Greens to contest the tiny centre ground in an unrepresentative electoral system curated and jealously guarded by the two megaliths, Labour and Conservative. Because the Green Party programme is the only one that starts to look honestly at the issue that will dominate the rest of the 21st Century, my view is that the other two should wind themselves into that. I think it's worth remembering that during the 2017 election, the Greens and LDs had agreements in a few constituencies, whICH i hope continues. However, the Green party currently have a major problem in that they seemingly have no remotely plausible target seats at the moment. As for TIG - they're currently (publically) taking a pretty aggressive stance towards LDs e.g. repeatedly claiming they want to replace LDs, and expect to be the major party in any electoral agreement. This seems somewhat short sighted, since in any GE they are likely to be in serious trouble without, not just non-compete agreements with LD, but the active support of LDs and their activists etc.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 31, 2019 11:31:11 GMT
For what it's worth, I think Change UK a really sad, unimaginative name. I also think there is not the political space for this party, the Lib Dems and the Greens to contest the tiny centre ground in an unrepresentative electoral system curated and jealously guarded by the two megaliths, Labour and Conservative. Because the Green Party programme is the only one that starts to look honestly at the issue that will dominate the rest of the 21st Century, my view is that the other two should wind themselves into that. I think it's worth remembering that during the 2017 election, the Greens and LDs had agreements in a few constituencies, whICH i hope continues. However, the Green party currently have a major problem in that they seemingly have no remotely plausible target seats at the moment. As for TIG - they're currently (publically) taking a pretty aggressive stance towards LDs e.g. repeatedly claiming they want to replace LDs, and expect to be the major party in any electoral agreement. This seems somewhat short sighted, since in any GE they are likely to be in serious trouble without, not just non-compete agreements with LD, but the active support of LDs and their activists etc. Good insight. The LDs have a lot of ground organisation in my constituency because they are competitive in local government elections. In most areas if you vote for any of these parties in a GE you might as well deposit your vote in the bin rather than the official box because current system makes your vote worthless. We will never know how many people in the UK actually have moderate political views in the UK as these voters mainly end up voting against a Labour or Conservative candidate they want to keep out of office rather than for the person they think would be their best representative.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Mar 31, 2019 12:07:04 GMT
I think it's worth remembering that during the 2017 election, the Greens and LDs had agreements in a few constituencies, whICH i hope continues. However, the Green party currently have a major problem in that they seemingly have no remotely plausible target seats at the moment. As for TIG - they're currently (publically) taking a pretty aggressive stance towards LDs e.g. repeatedly claiming they want to replace LDs, and expect to be the major party in any electoral agreement. This seems somewhat short sighted, since in any GE they are likely to be in serious trouble without, not just non-compete agreements with LD, but the active support of LDs and their activists etc. Good insight. The LDs have a lot of ground organisation in my constituency because they are competitive in local government elections. In most areas if you vote for any of these parties in a GE you might as well deposit your vote in the bin rather than the official box because current system makes your vote worthless. We will never know how many people in the UK actually have moderate political views in the UK as these voters mainly end up voting against a Labour or Conservative candidate they want to keep out of office rather than for the person they think would be their best representative. I think this is one reason why the upcoming European elections (assuming as I expect, they happen in UK) could be very interesting. Since they're run on PR, there's much more of a chance for significant demonstration of support. Even more so if LD+Green+TIG could sort out running a single joint list this time.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 31, 2019 12:34:29 GMT
As for TIG - they're currently (publically) taking a pretty aggressive stance towards LDs e.g. repeatedly claiming they want to replace LDs, and expect to be the major party in any electoral agreement. Historically votes have attached to the party not the candidate, so it will be interesting to see how manyTIG's survive an election (personally, can't see it being a lot).
I guess the nightmare scenario would be (for instance) if Chuka's support was split with the next official Labour candidate and this let in a third party.
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