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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 0:03:57 GMT
Simple p2p forum position of where the consensus lies. * no comments required. edit * edit .. apologies but maybe a comment of yes or no will keep the poll up the thread agenda, if you get my meaning. or simply "Voted"
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 4, 2019 7:30:34 GMT
same problem as with the referendum - there are lots of ways of leaving (and of not leaving) and reducing it to a binary YES/NO isn't helpful IMHO. Anyway, have voted FWIW.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 4, 2019 7:34:08 GMT
you could try a poll on "Should the UK leave the EU with the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration."
I suspect a preferential voting system on the different forms of Leave (+/- need for confirmatory referendum) is beyond the forum...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 4, 2019 7:41:49 GMT
there are lots of ways of leaving Not certain this is the case.
The only way of leaving I can see (leave as in not attached in any way to the EU in the future) is no deal.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 4, 2019 12:56:54 GMT
there are lots of ways of leaving Not certain this is the case.
The only way of leaving I can see (leave as in not attached in any way to the EU in the future) is no deal.
The government and HoC see it very differently. As did the Leave campaign at the time. The obsession with a clean break and no deal (aka trade tariffs) came well after the referendum.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 4, 2019 13:02:40 GMT
The only way of leaving I can see (leave as in not attached in any way to the EU in the future) is no deal. And there y'go, narrowing the options right down. You're right - if that is genuinely the only kind of "Leave" that you can contemplate, then No Deal is the only option possible, and always was. Norway is outside the EU. Yet you're ruling their relationship out as a model for the future. Switzerland is outside the EU. Yet you're ruling that out. Turkey is outside the EU. Yet you're ruling that out. The Ukraine is outside the EU. Yet you're ruling that out. Leaving with No Deal gives the UK a markedly worse relationship with the EU than Japan has, than Australia has, than Canada has, than South Korea has, than South Africa has... and not just the relationship with the EU, but because we're walking away from those pre-existing relationships, it gives the UK a markedly worse relationship with those other countries, too. Yes, we can then go on to negotiate new relationships with all those major trading partners - but from a much weaker position than we're currently in.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 4, 2019 13:15:47 GMT
Simple p2p forum position of where the consensus lies. * no comments required. edit * edit .. apologies but maybe a comment of yes or no will keep the poll up the thread agenda, if you get my meaning. or simply "Voted"Voted. (and hopefully won't need to again)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 4, 2019 17:44:57 GMT
Not certain this is the case.
The only way of leaving I can see (leave as in not attached in any way to the EU in the future) is no deal.
The obsession with a clean break and no deal (aka trade tariffs) came well after the referendum.
I thought you supported the right of people to change their minds? (or does that only apply if you are moving from leave to remain?)
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 4, 2019 18:01:50 GMT
The obsession with a clean break and no deal (aka trade tariffs) came well after the referendum.
I thought you supported the right of people to change their minds? (or does that only apply if you are moving from leave to remain?) Indeed I do, without question! I don't support it when people say that people were voting for a no deal Brexit in 2016 - there is clear evidence they weren't (available on request).
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lara
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Post by lara on Apr 4, 2019 19:19:58 GMT
Indeed I do, without question! I don't support it when people say that people were voting for a no deal Brexit in 2016 - there is clear evidence they weren't (available on request). Well, some of us were!
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 4, 2019 19:37:48 GMT
If you want a pure clean Brexit, and you believe it is the Will, of the People, you should be shouting for a new referendum. Don't kid yourself that this government is going let us leave without a deal.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 20:20:05 GMT
TBH this poll was meant to be about a more simple yes or no ... i agree it is binary, but ultimately everyone's reasons will/should conclude one way or the other, the thread i started elsewhere is the place for arguments.. Edit.. Not arguments.. more differing of opinions.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 4, 2019 20:24:27 GMT
Simple p2p forum position of where the consensus lies. * no comments required. edit * edit .. apologies but maybe a comment of yes or no will keep the poll up the thread agenda, if you get my meaning. or simply "Voted"Voted. (and hopefully won't need to again) Very good.
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Post by df on Apr 4, 2019 21:18:22 GMT
Indeed I do, without question! I don't support it when people say that people were voting for a no deal Brexit in 2016 - there is clear evidence they weren't (available on request). Well, some of us were! Even those who made an informed decision (incl. the leadership of leave campaign) back in 2016 didn't know what the process entails. Large proportion of voters (particularly in the North) gave their vote to leave because referendum gave them a chance to voice their dissatisfaction with political elite. Why would they support David Cameron? Bringing Tony Blair and other celebrities from the same "gang" did backfire for remain campaign. At the same time, many people voted remain purely in support of international friendship/not being isolated without having a clear idea about what the EU actually is. I think both campaigns were misleading and the referendum itself was an immature decision. It is very unproductive - the house is busy with Brexit instead of focussing on issues that are essential for majority of people in this country.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 6, 2019 0:07:06 GMT
Even those who made an informed decision (incl. the leadership of leave campaign) back in 2016 didn't know what the process entails. Large proportion of voters (particularly in the North) gave their vote to leave because referendum gave them a chance to voice their dissatisfaction with political elite. Why would they support David Cameron? Bringing Tony Blair and other celebrities from the same "gang" did backfire for remain campaign. At the same time, many people voted remain purely in support of international friendship/not being isolated without having a clear idea about what the EU actually is. I think both campaigns were misleading and the referendum itself was an immature decision. It is very unproductive - the house is busy with Brexit instead of focussing on issues that are essential for majority of people in this country.My bold. The house is indeed focusing on the "Issue" that is ATM the most essential and partisan decision the UK has made since the second world war, i would suggest that brexit "is" the most essential issue for the majority of uk citizens at this time.
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