adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 22, 2019 16:57:41 GMT
I find myself idly wondering...
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Apr 22, 2019 17:08:22 GMT
I find myself idly wondering... I find myself idly wondering what you're idly wondering 
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 22, 2019 17:11:27 GMT
I find myself idly wondering... I find myself idly wondering what you're idly wondering It amused me enough to vote anyway  .
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Apr 22, 2019 17:16:49 GMT
Trying to fill in online tax assessment and killing time
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Post by samford71 on Apr 22, 2019 17:21:44 GMT
I find myself idly wondering... Well the Lord Ashcroft poll from just after the 2016 referendum ( link) asked whether people thought "the Green movement was a force for ill"; Remainers voted 22%, Leavers 78%. It was a similar split for social liberalism, feminism, globalism, multi-culturalism and immigration. Values, not economics, is the differentiator. The Remain side constantly misses that one by focussing solely on economic outcomes.
Of course, you can believe the Green movement is a force for ill and still believe in climate change. I voted Remain and see anthropogenic climate change as an inevitable result of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Nonetheless, I see many environmentalists as incredibly poorly educated on the basic physics of the climate change issue. Moreover, I wouldn't say the current "Extinction Rebellion" protest in London is exactly making friends with a proportion of the London population.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 22, 2019 19:19:12 GMT
I see the deniers are in short supply.
Maybe we should have another poll: which is most important to you, sorting out Brexit or sorting out climate change
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Post by batchoy on Apr 22, 2019 23:18:55 GMT
I find myself idly wondering... Well the Lord Ashcroft poll from just after the 2016 referendum ( link) asked whether people thought "the Green movement was a force for ill"; Remainers voted 22%, Leavers 78%. It was a similar split for social liberalism, feminism, globalism, multi-culturalism and immigration. Values, not economics, is the differentiator. The Remain side constantly misses that one by focussing solely on economic outcomes.
Of course, you can believe the Green movement is a force for ill and still believe in climate change. I voted Remain and see anthropogenic climate change as an inevitable result of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Nonetheless, I see many environmentalists as incredibly poorly educated on the basic physics of the climate change issue. Moreover, I wouldn't say the current "Extinction Rebellion" protest in London is exactly making friends with a proportion of the London population.
The question is which Green movement. The current anti-plastics brigade are probably the greatest force for ill, particularly when it comes to climate change, due to their blinkered ill-informed view point.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 24, 2019 12:54:48 GMT
Only one person admitting to being a climate change denier...? Makes one wonder how the "much ado" thread's got to four pages...
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Post by charlata on Apr 24, 2019 15:10:04 GMT
Only one person admitting to being a climate change denier...? Makes one wonder how the "much ado" thread's got to four pages... You should perhaps have put believe/don't believe CO 2 emissions should be reduced. There's a lot of people who claim they believe in CC, but when you look at what they prioritise in their lives they essentially don't. It's like asking people if they're atheists. Most people say no, but at the same time have no semblance of anything spiritual in their lives.
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Post by df on Apr 24, 2019 15:47:43 GMT
I see the deniers are in short supply.
Maybe we should have another poll: which is most important to you, sorting out Brexit or sorting out climate change
If we had one, my vote would be the latter. Brexit is a temporary issue - climate change is permanent. I'm not too worried about my own livelihood, but my children's and grandchildren's. I didn't vote in this poll because I can't label myself as brexiteer or remainer. I did vote at referendum, but on my own merits (not inspired by campaigns and politicians who led them).
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 25, 2019 9:31:53 GMT
I see the deniers are in short supply.
Maybe we should have another poll: which is most important to you, sorting out Brexit or sorting out climate change
If we had one, my vote would be the latter. Brexit is a temporary issue - climate change is permanent. The poll currently shows a greater percentage of Remainers being climate change believers than Leavers. Perhaps Remainers should get behind no-deal Brexit as they believe it'll do great damage to the economy. Not good for our wealth, but better for the planet?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 25, 2019 10:02:49 GMT
If we had one, my vote would be the latter. Brexit is a temporary issue - climate change is permanent. The poll currently shows a greater percentage of Remainers being climate change believers than Leavers. Perhaps Remainers should get behind no-deal Brexit as they believe it'll do great damage to the economy. Not good for our wealth, but better for the planet? Nope - we can more easily invest in green technology (and provide aid overseas for the same) with a functioning economy. And of course, it's not really a "belief" that no deal Brexit will harm the economy, it's based on the government's (and all reputable economists') worked out economic models. Even the hard-brexiteer-in-chief Rees Mogg agrees that there will be considerable damage that might last 50 years to recover. Economics is a soft science for sure, with considerable margin for error, but it's not faith based. There's no realistic scenario where a no deal Brexit doesn't damage the economy for a long time, which is why I had understood the argument had now moved to "but it's worth it for sovereignty, EU immigration control, etc, and anyway the EU will soon come running for a deal on our terms if we go through with it."
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 25, 2019 10:32:25 GMT
The poll currently shows a greater percentage of Remainers being climate change believers than Leavers. Perhaps Remainers should get behind no-deal Brexit as they believe it'll do great damage to the economy. Not good for our wealth, but better for the planet? Nope - we can more easily invest in green technology (and provide aid overseas for the same) with a functioning economy.
'Figure 2 Greenhouse gas emissions associated with UK consumption 1997, 2007, 2015 and 2016' shows
"In 2016 total greenhouse gas emissions associated with UK consumption were 3 per cent lower than in 1997 when this series begins." split:
"Road transport emissions generated directly by households: increased 6%" "UK production emissions attributable to UK final consumption: decreased 35%" "Households heating emissions arising from use of fossil fuels:decreased 12%"
"Imports used by UK businesses and directly by UK consumers increased 43%"
The imports figure is now the largest component, no doubt due to "Since 1997, the UK economy has continued to move from a manufacturing base towards the services sector."
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 25, 2019 10:47:49 GMT
There seems to be a general understanding that the key pollutant which is going to fry us in short order is Co2. However, it is completely free to dump as much as you like into the atmosphere. It is a ludicrous situation.
80% of this comes from industry - metal smelting, cement works etc. and Co2 emissions need to be priced in in order for the market to give correcting signals to shape human activity. It requires a worldwide tax on carbon dioxide, with tariffs for non-compliant countries.
As the clock has ticked on, it has become necessary in all climate correcting models to include Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) to rebalance. The obvious place for the storage is in natural reservoirs such as oil wells which are pumped dry using gas pressure. At the moment that gas is air, because there is no incentive to use Co2 because it has no price. The market needs intervention where capitalism is producing no price signal for this most damaging product.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 25, 2019 10:59:09 GMT
There seems to be a general understanding that the key pollutant which is going to fry us in short order is Co2. However, it is completely free to dump as much as you like into the atmosphere. It is a ludicrous situation. 80% of this comes from industry - metal smelting, cement works etc. Source? (not sure if you're referring to the UK or worldwide)
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