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Post by rooster on Feb 7, 2020 22:34:18 GMT
I have got a bit lost now in all of this and I know model 1 lenders are classed as creditors but who are the rest of of the creditors and what for and what amounts are they talking. why isn't LB sorting out creditors instead of everything coming out of lenders miserly returns. p2p secured lending yea really. Just to give you an idea Rocky1: HMRC Utility Companies 3rd party suppliers: Caterers Insurance companies Building maintenance companies Cleaners IT/telephony providers etc Graphics designers Marketing companies Printing companies Basically any company that sent an invoice prior to Lendy's administration for services rendered that didn't receive payment. They all end up in the queue, along with M1 investors.
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geoff
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Post by geoff on Feb 7, 2020 23:50:10 GMT
I have got a bit lost now in all of this and I know model 1 lenders are classed as creditors but who are the rest of of the creditors and what for and what amounts are they talking. why isn't LB sorting out creditors instead of everything coming out of lenders miserly returns. p2p secured lending yea really. Just to give you an idea Rocky1: HMRC Utility Companies 3rd party suppliers: Caterers Insurance companies Building maintenance companies Cleaners IT/telephony providers etc Graphics designers Marketing companies Printing companies Basically any company that sent an invoice prior to Lendy's administration for services rendered that didn't receive payment. They all end up in the queue, along with M1 investors. A full list of creditors and amounts claimed can be found here (Joint Administrators' Proposals, 15 July 2019, pages 25-28)
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 8, 2020 8:27:31 GMT
well done LIAM.so despite all this spin of (in the unlikely event of platform failure)we have everything covered to maximise returns to lenders it is all BS.platform failure seems now to be the biggest risk in this p2p carry on.never mind RICs valuations,dodgy borrowers,and all the hype we are bottom of the food chain when the sh*t hits the fan.i think 2020 will see many of the remaining platforms winding up and looking for something else to reel in lenders hard earnt.interest lowering almost to a point where it is not worth the massive riisks that we now are all aware of.the roulette wheel is spinning round as we speak.thanks to the members for the above details of where a lot of my savings will be heading off to.
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Feb 8, 2020 10:29:52 GMT
Just to give you an idea Rocky1: HMRC Utility Companies 3rd party suppliers: Caterers Insurance companies Building maintenance companies Cleaners IT/telephony providers etc Graphics designers Marketing companies Printing companies Basically any company that sent an invoice prior to Lendy's administration for services rendered that didn't receive payment. They all end up in the queue, along with M1 investors. A full list of creditors and amounts claimed can be found here (Joint Administrators' Proposals, 15 July 2019, pages 25-28) I'd also assume that M2 creditors will also be added to this list for shortfalls?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 8, 2020 10:51:38 GMT
A full list of creditors and amounts claimed can be found here (Joint Administrators' Proposals, 15 July 2019, pages 25-28) I'd also assume that M2 creditors will also be added to this list for shortfalls? I wouldnt assume anything.
But also missing the biggest ones
lawyers landlord owners
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 8, 2020 10:55:56 GMT
They are not following the t&cs, that is why all sums due, 'secured liabilities,' rank equally as per the 'waterfall' in the security docs.
Your second point is one of the elements LAG will be addressing in the challenge I suspect.
My apologies - this is what I was referring to, if it weren’t for the challenge RSM would have paid out this ‘hidden’ default interest to Lendy in front of Lenders. The challenge is going to cost us dearly by way of RSMs fees in addition to the fund raise. No, they were not paying out anything ahead of lenders (apart from recovery costs incl the SLA 3%) prior to the challenge, it all ranks equally. That is the position under the current legal advice. The current position is better for lenders than the position when Lendy were in charge but worse than the original model 2 terms.
Costs of the challenge should come from the Lendy estate ie sums avaliable to creditors not investors
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one21
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Post by one21 on Feb 9, 2020 15:58:31 GMT
My apologies - this is what I was referring to, if it weren’t for the challenge RSM would have paid out this ‘hidden’ default interest to Lendy in front of Lenders. The challenge is going to cost us dearly by way of RSMs fees in addition to the fund raise. No, they were not paying out anything ahead of lenders (apart from recovery costs incl the SLA 3%) prior to the challenge, it all ranks equally. That is the position under the current legal advice. The current position is better for lenders than the position when Lendy were in charge but worse than the original model 2 terms.
Costs of the challenge should come from the Lendy estate ie sums avaliable to creditors not investors
Thanks for clarification ilmoro, I submit to your superior interpretation! I now realise that RSM were still undecided with regard to Lendy's entitlement awaiting final determination, before receiving 'the challenge' from LAG.
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Post by paul123 on Feb 10, 2020 18:01:16 GMT
From Lisa on fb: Many have asked what we are doing with the funds we raised. Whilst I cant give out too much detail, I can tell you we have provided counsel with thousands of pages containing amongst other things, mis selling and mis leading materials, structure of notes, terms and conditions since Lendy's inception and all the data we accumulated since administration commenced. The solicitors and a small group of M2 Investors are working to finalise what our exact strategy is and to put RSM on notice of our grievances. That'll get the ball rolling but how far it goes is up to us. We must have the resources to stand and fight. Please contribute! www.crowdjustice.com/case/lendy-action-group-legal-fund/
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 11, 2020 8:16:36 GMT
might be able to question some of these creditors claims. what is this £6 million to kie**n oc*nner. pa*l co*es to be confirmed with no security held.lendy group ltd aka LB £800000 brankesmore ltd aka LB £50000 .various FCA remediation £592k.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 11, 2020 11:22:40 GMT
Do we know why RSM have apparently released NO money on some of the supposedly repaid loans (164 comes to mind)?? Dithering over the waterfall elements one can understand, but presumably there is 'free and clear' funds of some size?
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Feb 11, 2020 12:47:51 GMT
won't RSM be funding the waterfall case with our money anyway?and they want to keep plenty of lenders money to pay for all the hours they will/have put in to get to the judgement.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 11, 2020 12:52:57 GMT
won't RSM be funding the waterfall case with our money anyway?and they want to keep plenty of lenders money to pay for all the hours they will/have put in to get to the judgement. If they win then yes they will take their money first from the waterfall. If they don't win then they still take their money first but from another source mainly model 1 investor money.
The waterfall argument is where the excess over RSM fees goes either to Lendy creditors or model 2 investors.
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quidco
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Post by quidco on Feb 11, 2020 13:32:55 GMT
won't RSM be funding the waterfall case with our money anyway?and they want to keep plenty of lenders money to pay for all the hours they will/have put in to get to the judgement. If they win then yes they will take their money first from the waterfall. If they don't win then they still take their money first but from another source mainly model 1 investor money.
The waterfall argument is where the excess over RSM fees goes either to Lendy creditors or model 2 investors.
To me the part of the mis-selling of this is the role of the security and the LTV. These were what I suspect most lenders based their decision on but it now appears that because lenders capital "is not ring fenced" then the security is effectively shared with unsecured creditors (who are not even lenders in the loan). I certainly was not aware of this and it's information that clearly impacts the decision to lend.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 11, 2020 15:21:56 GMT
won't RSM be funding the waterfall case with our money anyway?and they want to keep plenty of lenders money to pay for all the hours they will/have put in to get to the judgement. If they win then yes they will take their money first from the waterfall. If they don't win then they still take their money first but from another source mainly model 1 investor money.
The waterfall argument is where the excess over RSM fees goes either to Lendy creditors or model 2 investors.
Sorry no. RSM take no fees from the waterfall, their fees will come from Lendy. The level of RSM fees, costs is not relevant to the amount model 2 investors receive from loan realisations
The argument is about how the net recovery after recovery costs is distributed, who, out of Lendy & lenders, is entitled to what & in what order. Currently Lendy get equal ranking on all sums due to them including substantial default interest which has the effect of higely diminishing lender returns.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 11, 2020 15:48:20 GMT
If they win then yes they will take their money first from the waterfall. If they don't win then they still take their money first but from another source mainly model 1 investor money.
The waterfall argument is where the excess over RSM fees goes either to Lendy creditors or model 2 investors.
Sorry no. RSM take no fees from the waterfall, their fees will come from Lendy. The level of RSM fees, costs is not relevant to the amount model 2 investors receive from loan realisations
The argument is about how the net recovery after recovery costs is distributed, who, out of Lendy & lenders, is entitled to what & in what order. Currently Lendy get equal ranking on all sums due to them including substantial default interest which has the effect of higely diminishing lender returns.
Yes RSM are taking money from Lendy, most of the funds that Lendy will have will come from the waterfall seeing as we don't know what if anything will be received from model 1 loans. If I remember correctly Lendy had £900k in the bank so RSM need some money from the waterfall to cover there fees.
The question was won't RSM be funding the case for the waterfall with our own money and any way I look at it the answer is yes and if they win then part of that our money will be from the waterfall (via Lendy). If not then the amount left for model 1 investors is less.
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