Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 6, 2019 16:54:26 GMT
Unfortunately this won't be happening now. After I spent 24 hours racing around trying to find a guest the BBC have just texted me to say they are now pulling the story!  |
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 6, 2019 17:02:05 GMT
eg forcing mandatory information on each loan What information should have been on Ly loans that wasn't there? Did you expect the answer to be anything but "100%"? No need to appear pedantic. There are load of information missing. Would be good to know more about the borrower instead of just some vague and glamourous descriptions about their achievements. The LTV can't be more unclear between what's called the LTGDV, the residual value, the fire sale value, etc. etc. Ideally it needs some standardisation. Without that, it should at least make it clear what's the likely recovery value in case of default.. which is much closer to fire value. Then all the fees, Lendy's fees, legal fees that are ongoing as well as legal cost in case of default. And indication of how money could be lost would be as simple as indicating the various exit plans and what would be the expected recovered amount when that happens. We all know it's possible to loose all money. But accurate information means indicating clearly how much is likely to be recovered if the various exit plan fails and if dev doesn't complete.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 6, 2019 17:03:58 GMT
I find it quite hard to envisage a situation where a person appearing on a show like this could appropriately represent the entire investor base, and worry that it could all too easily end up being "car crash TV" (or radio) eg the investment equivalent of the Jeremy Kyle show. This won't serve anybody well. Certainly the evidence to date suggests that the BBC (and Times, and Telegraph etc) might be more interested in sensationalist journalism than they are in balanced, reasoned, analysis. At least I'm not forced to pay for the Times and the Telegraph though.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 7, 2019 1:12:03 GMT
Or because everyone anticipated BDO doing a top notch job? Strange that nobody organised one during the two months between them going into administration and BDO being appointed, then. Maybe they had equal confidence in uncle Gordon?
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Post by queenvictoria on Jun 7, 2019 6:22:03 GMT
Unfortunately this won't be happening now. After I spent 24 hours racing around trying to find a guest the BBC have just texted me to say they are now pulling the story! Thanks for your hard work on this Monetus. There will be further opportunities and arguably we will be more ready once more info on state of the play is available.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 7, 2019 6:45:48 GMT
At least I'm not forced to pay for the Times and the Telegraph though. Follow the money. EVERYBODY certainly does pay for every advertising-funded media source. The commercial TV channels alone cost the average household several times the licence fee, annually. It's just disguised through marketing budgets and the price you pay in shops, rather than being overt.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 7, 2019 7:44:31 GMT
What information should have been on Ly loans that wasn't there? Did you expect the answer to be anything but "100%"? No need to appear pedantic. There are load of information missing. Would be good to know more about the borrower instead of just some vague and glamourous descriptions about their achievements. The LTV can't be more unclear between what's called the LTGDV, the residual value, the fire sale value, etc. etc. Ideally it needs some standardisation. Without that, it should at least make it clear what's the likely recovery value in case of default.. which is much closer to fire value. Then all the fees, Lendy's fees, legal fees that are ongoing as well as legal cost in case of default. And indication of how money could be lost would be as simple as indicating the various exit plans and what would be the expected recovered amount when that happens. We all know it's possible to loose all money. But accurate information means indicating clearly how much is likely to be recovered if the various exit plan fails and if dev doesn't complete. It's all been said many times before but, read the information provided carefully and if you don't think there is enough information don't bid, if you don't understand the valuation don't bid, if you don't think you can assess the risk don't bid and even if you just have an 'off' feeling about it don't bid. The worst case scenario is always going to be a 100% loss (how much you might lose in any particular scenario is a 'how long is a piece of string' question, legal costs of recovery could easily be close to or more than the funds eventually recovered). P2P lending is inherently risky and loans at 12% are going to be at the top end of the risk scale, otherwise the borrower would be able to get a much cheaper loan from a main stream lender. Diversify across loans and platforms and do not invest more than you would be prepared to lose. Definitely do not invest an amount that would seriously affect your life if you lost it. There will still be losses but at least you will have done your best to mitigate them.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 7, 2019 7:54:23 GMT
Well said, Greenwood2. How long has it been said here that it's reasonable to expect ~7% across proper diversification, after losses? I'm still sitting just shy of 11% for Ly. Will I end up way below that 7%? I don't know... Worrying about it won't make a difference, either. I can take a fairly hefty hit on my remaining loans before I get there. |
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 7, 2019 8:48:38 GMT
No need to appear pedantic. There are load of information missing. Would be good to know more about the borrower instead of just some vague and glamourous descriptions about their achievements. The LTV can't be more unclear between what's called the LTGDV, the residual value, the fire sale value, etc. etc. Ideally it needs some standardisation. Without that, it should at least make it clear what's the likely recovery value in case of default.. which is much closer to fire value. Then all the fees, Lendy's fees, legal fees that are ongoing as well as legal cost in case of default. And indication of how money could be lost would be as simple as indicating the various exit plans and what would be the expected recovered amount when that happens. We all know it's possible to loose all money. But accurate information means indicating clearly how much is likely to be recovered if the various exit plan fails and if dev doesn't complete. It's all been said many times before but, read the information provided carefully and if you don't think there is enough information don't bid, if you don't understand the valuation don't bid, if you don't think you can assess the risk don't bid and even if you just have an 'off' feeling about it don't bid. The worst case scenario is always going to be a 100% loss (how much you might lose in any particular scenario is a 'how long is a piece of string' question, legal costs of recovery could easily be close to or more than the funds eventually recovered). P2P lending is inherently risky and loans at 12% are going to be at the top end of the risk scale, otherwise the borrower would be able to get a much cheaper loan from a main stream lender. Diversify across loans and platforms and do not invest more than you would be prepared to lose. Definitely do not invest an amount that would seriously affect your life if you lost it. There will still be losses but at least you will have done your best to mitigate them. Much of that I agree with , but I can quote one loan PBL068 ( there are probably more that I am not involved with) where it is clear something underhand and deceptive has gone on , I have been lied to many times on this and this is something I did not legislate for . Not withstanding the risk factors you state above which I realise and I am fully aware of , when I can't believe things a platform tells me and the information that you have based your judgment on clearly is incorrect then that for me is certainly an alarm call , a call I got with Lendy some time ago.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 7, 2019 8:59:34 GMT
Hey I got you telling me not to bid if I don't understand. And that 100% losses is the worse case scenario (actually no you can get sued for it). All these are common sense.
But really, I can't comprehend how you can be happy with the current ongoing lack of reliable and trustworthy information. If we have some basic such as the borrower past successful and unsuccessful experience. And have some standard for displaying LTV, it would raise P2P lending so much more than it is today.
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Post by Wakey on Jun 7, 2019 11:24:37 GMT
At least I'm not forced to pay for the Times and the Telegraph though. Follow the money. EVERYBODY certainly does pay for every advertising-funded media source. The commercial TV channels alone cost the average household several times the licence fee, annually. It's just disguised through marketing budgets and the price you pay in shops, rather than being overt.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 7, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
And have some standard for displaying LTV, it would raise P2P lending so much more than it is today. So what value do you put on a part-finished development project...? When it's at the stage of a muddy site with holes in the ground and the odd bit of concrete being poured? Getting to ground level is probably the most expensive part of any dev project, and the realisable value is only ever going to be way below cost. If you don't begin to understand GDV, then stay away from dev projects.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 7, 2019 11:30:35 GMT
Follow the money. EVERYBODY certainly does pay for every advertising-funded media source. The commercial TV channels alone cost the average household several times the licence fee, annually. It's just disguised through marketing budgets and the price you pay in shops, rather than being overt. Yikes! That means that I am paying for the Guardian every time I buy something in the shops. Ugh. Unless I restrict myself to products never advertised in publications which I detest. But how do I find out which they are without buying copies? Sigh.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 7, 2019 11:54:36 GMT
And have some standard for displaying LTV, it would raise P2P lending so much more than it is today. So what value do you put on a part-finished development project...? When it's at the stage of a muddy site with holes in the ground and the odd bit of concrete being poured? Getting to ground level is probably the most expensive part of any dev project, and the realisable value is only ever going to be way below cost. If you don't begin to understand GDV, then stay away from dev projects. If the initial LTV quoted was the value as it is without development for fire sale. Meaning before the development project start. Then a part finished development shouldn't be that far from it. That's now what I use as foundation to value dev loan. That's also the reason why I decided to move most of my investment from Lendy to Fundingsecure which has a more down to earth valuation (even though management isn't great).
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 7, 2019 12:19:52 GMT
It's all been said many times before but, read the information provided carefully and if you don't think there is enough information don't bid, if you don't understand the valuation don't bid, if you don't think you can assess the risk don't bid and even if you just have an 'off' feeling about it don't bid. The worst case scenario is always going to be a 100% loss (how much you might lose in any particular scenario is a 'how long is a piece of string' question, legal costs of recovery could easily be close to or more than the funds eventually recovered). P2P lending is inherently risky and loans at 12% are going to be at the top end of the risk scale, otherwise the borrower would be able to get a much cheaper loan from a main stream lender. Diversify across loans and platforms and do not invest more than you would be prepared to lose. Definitely do not invest an amount that would seriously affect your life if you lost it. There will still be losses but at least you will have done your best to mitigate them. Much of that I agree with , but I can quote one loan PBL068 ( there are probably more that I am not involved with) where it is clear something underhand and deceptive has gone on , I have been lied to many times on this and this is something I did not legislate for . Not withstanding the risk factors you state above which I realise and I am fully aware of , when I can't believe things a platform tells me and the information that you have based your judgment on clearly is incorrect then that for me is certainly an alarm call , a call I got with Lendy some time ago. There are definitely some really dodgy loans out there and some very dodgy borrowers, and there is a lot of room for improvement by platforms in vetting borrowers and in the information they provide. I guess most if not all of us have been caught by some of the bad loans and it is infuriating to see some borrowers apparently laughing all the way to the bank (with our money), you can dodge some of the bullets but not all of them.
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