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Post by wiseclerk on Aug 7, 2019 13:40:33 GMT
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Post by dutchman on Aug 7, 2019 14:28:52 GMT
interesting to see that according to this list (link below), they rate it 50 points, where mintos own rating metions c+ if you would only buy 50 & higher you would still have bought these loans explorep2p.com/mintos-lender-ratings/although the list is interesting i guess its best to use both their info and mintos rating...
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Post by wiseclerk on Aug 7, 2019 14:29:42 GMT
A rating won't help if it comes to the worst
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Post by bilko on Aug 7, 2019 14:55:16 GMT
Viventor already suspended Aforti a few hours earlier. Selling on secondary is still possible in theory but at huge discounts.
This doesn't look good.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,853
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Post by benaj on Aug 7, 2019 15:12:12 GMT
I have never looked into loans from Aforti. What was the attraction?
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Post by red_panda on Aug 7, 2019 15:16:07 GMT
Viventor already suspended Aforti a few hours earlier. Selling on secondary is still possible in theory but at huge discounts.
This doesn't look good. Nope
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Post by red_panda on Aug 7, 2019 15:16:56 GMT
I have about 7% of my Mintos Portfolio in Afforti, let's see how this plays out.
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Post by bilko on Aug 7, 2019 16:11:36 GMT
Viventor already suspended Aforti a few hours earlier. Selling on secondary is still possible in theory but at huge discounts.
This doesn't look good. Nope I was referring to Viventor's secondary market.
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cwah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 949
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Post by cwah on Aug 7, 2019 21:15:32 GMT
Any of you being impacted by the recent Aforti default? It looks like they have 10x debt to equity ratio 😱 (https://beta.simplywall.st/stocks/pl/diversified-financials/wse-afh/aforti-holding-shares). Also, from their website, it says "Nominal value of debt collection commissions on July 2019 reached PLN 31 595,00 thousand. This is an increase by 6820.88% YoY. The number of recovery orders amounted to 8 866 and was higher by 110725.00% compared to July 2018. The company concluded seven contracts in the indicated month (higher by 75.00%)." aforti.pl/en/category/raports/Sounds like they have a 100x increase in default??? 🤔🤔 I have about €3k stuck in..... 😢😢😢
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Post by extremis on Aug 8, 2019 0:10:55 GMT
Debt to equity ratio is actually closer to 13 and quickly increasing; however debt is still covered by short term assets. They have issued bonds with 7-8% interest rates and the loans offered at Mintos/Viventor platforms are 12% interest rate max. APR is usually ~70% so there is a good margin to cover for any loan defaults. But have they published average loan default rates?
Also, their stock price has nearly tripled in 1 year, how is this possible for a company with financial difficulties? Or is it market manipulation? 96% of shares belong to individual insiders and only 4% to general public. And how about the bond rates? Sure, 7-8% rates are in the junk territory, but they are still low (the lowest?) compared with those from other Loan Originators. For comparison, Mogo, an A-rated company which also happens to be the largest by volume loan originator on Mintos, has issued bonds with 9.5-10% rates. And Banknote/Vizia (SiaExpressCredit), rated at A- by Mintos, has issued bonds with 15% interest rate. Most of the other loan originators have been established only recently, are not listed in any stock exchange and/or have not issued any bonds yet (because they couldn't?). On the other hand, Mintos had recently down-rated Aforti to C+, do they have information the markets don't have?
Aforti was one of my favorite loan originators (well, i like to invest in business loans and there are not so many with buyback guarantees available on Mintos platform) and one that i also considered underestimated and somehow lower risk than average. This time it looks like Aforti's downgrading was well justified, but will that be always the case? Are we really safe (or safer) by investing only in A-B rated companies? I am not so sure about it. Anyway, let's hope it will all end up well for everyone that has invested in Aforti's loans.
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fric
Member of DD Central
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Post by fric on Aug 8, 2019 8:18:38 GMT
interesting to see that according to this list (link below), they rate it 50 points, where mintos own rating metions c+ if you would only buy 50 & higher you would still have bought these loans explorep2p.com/mintos-lender-ratings/although the list is interesting i guess its best to use both their info and mintos rating... As I have been saying before - most of the loans on Mintos (especially personal loans, payday type loans and such) are very high risk, even with the buyback clause.
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Post by southseacompany on Aug 8, 2019 9:10:45 GMT
Something about this doesn't add up. Aforti was voluntarily redeeming some of its bonds one week ago. The company's share price is up 60% in the last month and is up for the day as I write this. If it is in financial distress, that must have happened so abruptly that neither management or investors were, or indeed are, aware of it. That would suggest either there's been major internal fraud, or in fact they are having technical difficulties and not real liquidity problems (although their explanation seems too fishy to believe that).
This may be a situation that one could not reasonably have predicted by looking at their financials and presentations -- a reminder of the importance of diversification, if one were needed.
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Post by bilko on Aug 8, 2019 12:27:48 GMT
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Post by geldregiertdiewelt on Aug 8, 2019 18:14:18 GMT
although the list is interesting i guess its best to use both their info and mintos rating... the best is to use brains and apply the three golden rules of minimizing investment risk: 1. Diversification 2. Diversification 3. Diversification
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Post by extremis on Aug 8, 2019 22:43:21 GMT
I suppose the meeting is over by now, anyone has any news?
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