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Post by cautious on Nov 7, 2014 7:28:57 GMT
Soooooo Dave and George (that is the rest of us) have to pay France and Germany 1.7 Bn........I think that's the gist of it.
Ignoring the politics of it, the consensus seems to be that we end up paying.
Dec 1 deadline.....interest on late payment is 2.5% rising by 0.25% per month.
Why not issue a UK only Govt. bond at say 5% to raise the capital....the interest paid monthly stays in the UK and gets re-circulated into the economy aiding the recovery.
Any thoughts ?
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Post by davee39 on Nov 7, 2014 8:59:57 GMT
It will be raised through borrowing, at closer to 2%.
What is more interesting (and hidden) is the fact that Govt CAN borrow at 2% but channels so much activity through the private sector at far higher rates.
You raise a good point though - the latest deal with EDF I believe guarantees a rate of 9% for a new nuclear power station - now could some of this have been financed by a publicly issued Energy Bond at a lower, but still attractive rate?
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Post by yorkshireman on Nov 7, 2014 12:09:51 GMT
Soooooo Dave and George (that is the rest of us) have to pay France and Germany 1.7 Bn........I think that's the gist of it.
Ignoring the politics of it, the consensus seems to be that we end up paying.
Dec 1 deadline.....interest on late payment is 2.5% rising by 0.25% per month.
Why not issue a UK only Govt. bond at say 5% to raise the capital....the interest paid monthly stays in the UK and gets re-circulated into the economy aiding the recovery.
Any thoughts ? Good idea but seeing that Dave thinks it would be “lovely” to maintain interest rates at current levels it won’t happen as 5% would create a dangerous precedent.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Nov 7, 2014 13:44:01 GMT
The artificially suppressed interest rates (ZIRP) we're currently seeing are like an over-stretched elastic band. They are fueling the mother of all debt bubbles and will some day snap back upwards with horrific consequences for those who have over-leveraged at the current low rates. Dave Cameron does himself a gross disservice by his most recent comments. He either makes himself look like a clown to anybody with even the most vague understanding of monetary policy, or he makes himself look like he's playing the British Public for complete idiots. I suspect the history books will not prove kind to his recent comments...
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Post by cautious on Nov 7, 2014 15:14:14 GMT
It will be raised through borrowing, at closer to 2%. Who is lending to Dave & Co. at that rate ?
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Post by elljay on Nov 7, 2014 15:44:24 GMT
Now halved and interest free till Sep '15 according to the Beeb. I guess we're supposed to be happy that we're only paying £850m!  |
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pikestaff
Member of DD Central
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 7, 2014 16:55:01 GMT
The £1.7bn has not been halved. That's just spin, offsetting the bill against a rebate that we would have got anyway.
Dave always knew the number would not really change. His early statements were carefully calibrated only to say that we would not pay on 1 December. He did not change his tune to say we'd not pay the full amount until his advisers had figured out how to do the deal so that he could give it this spin.
The whole thing's been an entirely manufactured row to enable Dave to sound tough about an adjustment that was always coming, and the Treasury always knew was coming. Whether it's done him any good is another matter entirely.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 7, 2014 17:06:18 GMT
Wholeheardtedly agree with Pikestaff on this one. The whole saga reeks of manipulation for political purposes but has been handled so cack handedly that it just makes them look ridiculous. An inevitable outcome. Politics should be about the art of the possible. The fact that this was in line with the whole basis on which funding is calculated and it was the UK which provides the numbers on which it is calculated, just made them look ridiculous to attempt to take some high moral ground.
The whole way we are engaging with the european body politic is a disaster right now. If Osborne and Cameron's fundamental belief is that we should stick in Europe (which they claim it is) they are going about achieving that in a mighty strange fashion:they are ending up being party to an increasing crescendo of noise building up to a No vote in the promised vote.
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Post by oldnick on Nov 7, 2014 20:10:27 GMT
Yes to all of that bracknellboy but there is also some tacit support from those countries that feel the same but don't want to stand up and be counted. I think they're hoping that Dave will get some sort of concession that they'll all benefit by. |
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Post by davee39 on Nov 8, 2014 10:26:48 GMT
It will be raised through borrowing, at closer to 2%. Who is lending to Dave & Co. at that rate ? I rounded down. Read below about a 54 yr loan at <3% www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29885899There is an economic argument that government borrowing, invested wisely, could be a catalyst for economic revival by providing much needed infrastructure and jobs, leading to higher taxes and lower welfare which repays the borrowing. Unfortunately recent governments have proved themselves wholly incapable of spending sensibly.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 9, 2014 7:47:57 GMT
For values of 'recent' going back what, a century or more? I don't think we've had much sense in the system since we introduced universal suffering ... Oops .. Sufferage .. Or maybe even before. As the risk of sounding twerpish, having people spending someone else's money, with a 5 year horizon, is not a great recipe for fiscal sanity.
Give me back the house of Lords with proper hereditary peers who can actually think in generations. 8>.
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Post by chielamangus on Nov 10, 2014 12:50:08 GMT
Give me back the house of Lords with proper hereditary peers who can actually think in generations. 8>. Is this just to get the pot boiling? Hardly a murmur of dissent so far. Wouldn't an elected upper house with a term of 8-15 years, and rolling elections so that a proportion is replaced/re-elected every 3-5 years be infinitely better? I've had enough of those from the rich man's club running the show. Yes, democracy is a funny old business - the clever, the stupid, the educated, the chavs, the scroungers, the diligent, the lazy, the thieves, the robbers, the anarchists, the rapists, the paedophiles, the religious, the conmen .... you get the idea .... and now even the school kids apparently, they all get exactly the same vote in how are we are governed. If any intelligent extra-terrestrial arrived here and saw this, he or she or it would laugh and laugh and laugh.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 10, 2014 13:22:41 GMT
Not sure about "rich man's club" - I think most (but not all) peers / bishops / etc. are rather less rich these days. But still I guess if you want them to think in terms of centuries, they have to have some stake in things. Anyway, maybe we SHOULD let the rich folks have more of a say, on the 'he who pays the piper ..' principal? At least they'd have less incentive/need to become multi-million-pound after-dinner speakers than some of the poor impoverished politicians I could name, their nests being already well feathered?
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Post by chielamangus on Nov 10, 2014 14:50:04 GMT
I was actually thinking about Dave 'n' George ... The long term for a politician is the next election, whether rich or on the make like TB (& his equally monstrous wife).
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markr
Member of DD Central
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Post by markr on Nov 10, 2014 20:33:23 GMT
If any intelligent extra-terrestrial arrived here and saw this, he or she or it would laugh and laugh and laugh. I thought they were laughing because we peel them with our metal knives, boil them for 20 of our Earth minutes, then smash them all to bits.
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