littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 14, 2020 9:47:19 GMT
I invested in a 5 year Wellesley P2P which matures early next month. It won't be paying back what I put in and it hasn't paid all the interest that was promised. If Wellesley were less opaque about it all I would be able to tell you what the losses are as a percentage of what was promised. Despite me asking they have not told me what happened to the provisioning fund or indeed if any of it has been used against my losses. Wellesley strangely haven't sent me the email 'newsletter'. My experience with them has been dire, I wouldn't give them any more. Remember this was meant to be both asset (property) backed and backed by a provision fund. Wellesley won't even tell me who the defaulting borrowers are: "As a Lender, you will not be provided with the name or identity of the party to whom you have lent money." Has there been a secret property crash that only Wellesley invested in? Or have they used bad valuations and lent to bad lenders? Who knows? I'm not sure even they know. So reading the newsletter will be interesting In the newsletter, kindly sent to me by tjtl, it says I am also pleased to report that our loan book is forecast to continue to perform without losses – having been independently stress tested with the results published on our website here.
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2boi
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Post by 2boi on Feb 14, 2020 11:57:18 GMT
In the newsletter, kindly sent to me by tjtl , it says I am also pleased to report that our loan book is forecast to continue to perform without losses – having been independently stress tested with the results published on our website here. My thanks also to tjtl. I have now read the newsletter, here is a link to the stress test results static.wellesley.co.uk/Wellesley-MIAC-Stress-Test.pdf , On first glance it is not simple to read eg last line "some cure from default is assumed" what does that mean? I had to look it up. I will now study it. The newsletter itself seems pretty bland and general.
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2boi
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Post by 2boi on Feb 15, 2020 1:10:58 GMT
new "Wellesley posts first-half profit" www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk/2020/02/14/wellesley-profit/This bit is interesting: " where professional advisers have, in the opinion of Wellesley, fallen below the standards expected of them which has led to loan losses, the company has initiated legal proceedings for damages. Whilst not certain, the directors believe that there is a potential range of such recoveries of £8.9m to £12.6m" First I've heard of legal proceedings. If true then eventually we'll find out against which surveryors and who the borrowers are. Unless the cases are settled or withdrawn...
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 15, 2020 8:55:08 GMT
Aren't these two extracts contradictory?
I am also pleased to report that our loan book is forecast to continue to perform without losses – having been independently stress tested with the results published on our website here.
professional advisers have, in the opinion of Wellesley, fallen below the standards expected of them which has led to loan losses
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 15, 2020 9:14:17 GMT
I assume the first statement claims the loan book overall is not subject to loss but the second statement refers to certain individual loans which have underperformed based on erroneous valuations.
It sounds like they have fallen foul of the completely corrupt ingenuous group of professionals which come under the RICS banner (See LY , FS etc etc for ample evidence) . Complete shower.
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Post by carol167 on Feb 15, 2020 9:29:43 GMT
There was a sale last year of a house in London in which two RICS valuers valued it at 1,600,000 a 3rd reckoned around 2,200,00 and a 4th 2,400,000. It sold for 2,400,000.
In this case they were nearly all undervalueing it. Why does it seem like all of our investment values are valued well above what they're actually worth..
You have to wonder if they're just guessing half the time and the other half is clearly fraudulent.
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 15, 2020 9:44:19 GMT
From my observations it appears the "incentive" by all surveyors is NOT to be an obstructor in the transaction it is facilitating. Therefore:
For your bread and butter residential transactions there is a bias towards undervaluation. The buyer normally undertakes the survey. Buyer happy, transaction goes ahead.
In the p2p type of loans, the survey is called upon by the loan provider. In these cases there appears to be a consistent bias towards overvaluation (in some cases substantial)- loan provider and lenders now happy and loan goes ahead.
In other words RICS surveyors are clearly NOT independent, NOT impartial, and have incentives beyond an accurate valuation of the property they have assigned to look at.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 15, 2020 11:50:22 GMT
I assume the first statement claims the loan book overall is not subject to loss but the second statement refers to certain individual loans which have underperformed based on erroneous valuations. It sounds like they have fallen foul of the completely corrupt ingenuous group of professionals which come under the RICS banner (See LY , FS etc etc for ample evidence) . Complete shower. IMO the plural in the last word of our loan book is forecast to continue to perform without lossesmeans that it cannot mean the overall loan book.
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tjtl
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Post by tjtl on Mar 10, 2020 12:47:04 GMT
To be fair to Wellesley I had three pretty chunky investments expiring this month, and they were all repaid exactly on time, and cash withdrawn with no issue. I still have 7 mini bonds to repay (some are not due for repayment for another 3 years, gulp) , and am nursing losses on 6 P2P loans, BUT the situation hasn't got any worse, and my overall exposure is reducing. I have a couple of small repayments (totalling £14k) due next month, so hope exposure reduces even further after that. No news on the likelihood of recovery on the damaged P@P loans (an update from Wellesley would be much appreciated).
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2boi
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Post by 2boi on Mar 12, 2020 18:31:14 GMT
I had to manually request my matured funds at the beginning of this month, otherwise they just sit on them and pay no interest. Takes up to 4 business days after maturity, again with no interest.
Not to mention the suspended funds that I can't get at all. Also no mention of the provision fund - what happened to that? Very little detail on the suspended funds - all anonymised so I don't know who has defaulted or why, or what amount if any of the default was covered by the 'provision fund'. No explanation as to why property secured loans weren't fully secured.
I will never invest with Wellesley again. Assuming they stay in business long....
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