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Post by mistoffelees on May 11, 2020 10:23:45 GMT
For me it isn't working as expected. I cleared out my holding account over the weekend. Access is set at 8.0, plus at 8.5, max at 9.0 reinvest rates. I had capital repayments this morning of £403 (split across Access at £128, £252 on Plus and £23 on Max). I currently have £19.97 on the market and £6.96 in my holding account. The £19.97 in on the Plus market. I also have new contracts created today totalling £233.00 on Plus, £122.57 on Access and £23.41 on Max. Amounts are slightly fudged but ultimately it adds up.
I may be missing something incredibly obvious here - but if it's a capital repayment, then... surely it should be available to withdraw?
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Post by jaycee on May 11, 2020 11:23:13 GMT
For me it isn't working as expected. I cleared out my holding account over the weekend. Access is set at 8.0, plus at 8.5, max at 9.0 reinvest rates. I had capital repayments this morning of £403 (split across Access at £128, £252 on Plus and £23 on Max). I currently have £19.97 on the market and £6.96 in my holding account. The £19.97 in on the Plus market. I also have new contracts created today totalling £233.00 on Plus, £122.57 on Access and £23.41 on Max. Amounts are slightly fudged but ultimately it adds up. I may be missing something incredibly obvious here - but if it's a capital repayment, then... surely it should be available to withdraw? Yes, as people have discovered, even in "rolling" / "access", loans "roll" against your will, and can't be "accessed", appearing to come in, but actually going straight out to the same borrower.
The capital repayment in your access account wasn't real. While it was made to look as though £128 was coming back to you, you have seen that when you try and grab that, it's only actually £5.43.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on May 11, 2020 11:25:07 GMT
I may be missing something incredibly obvious here - but if it's a capital repayment, then... surely it should be available to withdraw? Not on Access I'm afraid, as it continues to be reinvested at the prevailing rate for the duration of the loan.
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Post by mistoffelees on May 11, 2020 12:52:14 GMT
It would seem to extend further than that. The bulk of the repayments I received (£252 Plus, £23 Max) were not on the Access market but have since rolled forward on the Plus market. Appreciate that others are aware of this - has there been any justification/anything been found in relevant terms which suggest that this is allowed? I can't quite wrap my head around how a capital repayment isn't a capital repayment.
Apologies if this is basic question.
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Post by diversifier on May 11, 2020 13:09:43 GMT
I may be missing something incredibly obvious here - but if it's a capital repayment, then... surely it should be available to withdraw? Not on Access I'm afraid, as it continues to be reinvested at the prevailing rate for the duration of the loan. Isn’t part of the confusion that this isn’t really Access vs non-Access? As I understand it, it’s really that from the borrower perspective, some loans repay interest-only, others capital repayment. RS paper over the distinction, to make everything look capital repayment unless you RYI. By coincidence rather than any logical connection, one-year loans are largely property-developer loans, and property-developer loans are usually interest-only. At least, that’s what I thought, so it’s checkable by looking at the loan details. Then, people invested in the 5-yr market don’t see this problem, but Access has lots of them.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on May 11, 2020 13:38:41 GMT
Not on Access I'm afraid, as it continues to be reinvested at the prevailing rate for the duration of the loan. Isn’t part of the confusion that this isn’t really Access vs non-Access? As I understand it, it’s really that from the borrower perspective, some loans repay interest-only, others capital repayment. RS paper over the distinction, to make everything look capital repayment unless you RYI. By coincidence rather than any logical connection, one-year loans are largely property-developer loans, and property-developer loans are usually interest-only. At least, that’s what I thought, so it’s checkable by looking at the loan details. Then, people invested in the 5-yr market don’t see this problem, but Access has lots of them. No, you've not got this yet - not entirely surprising, as RS seem to have gone out of their way to make it opaque when the products were re-imagined. The 1Y and 5Y markets, not available to new investors, work as you might expect. 1Y are bullets, interest and capital all at the end. 5Y loans amortize. But the Access/Plus/Max - really all the same market - are fundamentally different. There, your money stays in forever until you choose to RYI. Reinvesting is compulsory, though you have the option to set the rate unrealistically high if you want. There are literally dozens of threads on this...
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 11, 2020 15:37:33 GMT
It would seem to extend further than that. The bulk of the repayments I received (£252 Plus, £23 Max) were not on the Access market but have since rolled forward on the Plus market. Appreciate that others are aware of this - has there been any justification/anything been found in relevant terms which suggest that this is allowed? I can't quite wrap my head around how a capital repayment isn't a capital repayment. Apologies if this is basic question.
slightly obscured now as you can no longer see the Loan Numbers without inspecting each loan individually but the same principle applies. What you need to consider is the remaining terms "months remaining" of the loans you hold; if they are greater than 1 then the bulk of the capital repaid each month will be re-lent at the same rate in the same market. If they equal one than you will be able to withdraw all your capital through a cancelled order if "your rate" is high enough. All three markets Access, Plus and Max are basically the same thing and your loans will all behave in the same way within each.
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Post by mistoffelees on May 11, 2020 15:40:28 GMT
Perfect, that's great - thank you. So ultimately, I believe that anyone that requested an RYI after mid-April is potentially going to be better to wait things out. If they're processing 10x RYI orders per day, and then the RYIs in mid April are around the 395xxx figure so a difference of around 20k. Processing 10 per day meant it'll take 5.5 years for an RYI. I believe the longest loans on the 5 year are going to be 60 months, so...
Obviously this assumes that the rate is constant - from what Ratesetter have said (that requests peaked in mid March) then it may be that these increase in speed but given the interest rate haircut, one might cancel the other out.
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beagle
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Post by beagle on May 11, 2020 17:37:44 GMT
Wanted to put the money in shares when the FTSE hit 5,250.
So I'm out £1.3k profit as well as still not having my money back...
Annoying but I guess that is the risk we signed up for.
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beagle
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Post by beagle on May 11, 2020 17:39:10 GMT
it does work still but its a slow PAINFUL game
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Post by jaycee on May 12, 2020 11:16:29 GMT
Wanted to put the money in shares when the FTSE hit 5,250.
So I'm out £1.3k profit as well as still not having my money back...
Annoying but I guess that is the risk we signed up for. Well, up to a point. I think many of us still feel we signed up for a lower interest rate because it was heavily implied we had the least risk of not being able to access most of our funds.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on May 12, 2020 11:25:08 GMT
Annoying but I guess that is the risk we signed up for. Well, up to a point. I think many of us still feel we signed up for a lower interest rate because it was heavily implied we had the least risk of not being able to access most of our funds. Also rather assumes impeccable market timing on your part, including that you would definitely sell at the top of the market (who knows, we might be in a 'bear trap' right now... or is it a 'bull trap' actually? answers on a postcard...)
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Post by jaycee on May 12, 2020 13:00:58 GMT
Well, up to a point. I think many of us still feel we signed up for a lower interest rate because it was heavily implied we had the least risk of not being able to access most of our funds. Also rather assumes impeccable market timing on your part, including that you would definitely sell at the top of the market (who knows, we might be in a 'bear trap' right now... or is it a 'bull trap' actually? answers on a postcard...) I buy gradually on the way down and sell gradually on the way up. Below 5k I am only buying (albeit not 100% of my available spend), and above 6k I am only selling (not everything, but trimming) - so yes I would definitely realised some profit.
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on May 12, 2020 14:46:36 GMT
Also rather assumes impeccable market timing on your part, including that you would definitely sell at the top of the market (who knows, we might be in a 'bear trap' right now... or is it a 'bull trap' actually? answers on a postcard...) I buy gradually on the way down and sell gradually on the way up. Below 5k I am only buying (albeit not 100% of my available spend), and above 6k I am only selling (not everything, but trimming) - so yes I would definitely realised some profit. Don't forget to get some sleep
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Post by oppsididitagain on May 12, 2020 15:34:23 GMT
Perfect, that's great - thank you. So ultimately, I believe that anyone that requested an RYI after mid-April is potentially going to be better to wait things out. If they're processing 10x RYI orders per day, and then the RYIs in mid April are around the 395xxx figure so a difference of around 20k. Processing 10 per day meant it'll take 5.5 years for an RYI. I believe the longest loans on the 5 year are going to be 60 months, so... Obviously this assumes that the rate is constant - from what Ratesetter have said (that requests peaked in mid March) then it may be that these increase in speed but given the interest rate haircut, one might cancel the other out. Agreed. If you want to help the platform, and indirectly help everyone who has invested with RS, cancel your withdrawal request (If you don't need the money for bills etc) . The amount of withdrawals is putting a huge strain on the platform. Where do you expect RS to get the funds from to repay you ? These withdrawals are using up liquidity, which could be lent to people/businesses etc, generate fee's, more money for the PF etc etc I think the capital coverage ratio is above 100 and the provision fund around 115% ? So theoretically , if no one touched anything we will all come out of this ok. You might even get some early repayments when the PF kicks in on some loans. But I understand in the real world, things are different and it doesn't work like that - Fear, Panic delays on withdrawals, creates more fear/panic just a vicious circle- So I get you have to look after your own interests. FYI - There are people in the queue waiting for over 250K in one request, thats a 1/4 of the daily withdrawals at the moment ! So we may drop from the average of 10 a day.
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