09dolphin
Member of DD Central
Posts: 630
Likes: 856
|
Post by 09dolphin on Dec 12, 2020 12:24:57 GMT
I don't know if I have racist tendencies but if I do I'm not sure what I can do about it - purely because I'm not aware of them
Should I be ashamed that people of colour were abused in the 1950s or later. Yes - but how long am I and my family expected to apologise for previous generations?
A person of colour who was married to my sister abused and eventually killed her. Should my brother in laws family be expected to atone for the sins of a family member and if so for how many generations? I believe my brother in law was solely responsible for his actions and his family were blameless as they didn't condone their son's actions even though they knew he had a violent temper.. Yet according to BLM I should expect contrition from the generations of my Brother in laws family for hundreds of years.
Personally I believe everyone should be judged by their actions, ability and conduct rather than their family or colour of their skin. Surely we are mature enough accept the past and forgive rather than holding grudges forever.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,009
Likes: 4,821
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 12, 2020 12:29:34 GMT
I don't know if I have racist tendencies but if I do I'm not sure what I can do about it - purely because I'm not aware of them Should I be ashamed that people of colour were abused in the 1950s or later. Yes - but how long am I and my family expected to apologise for previous generations? No, of course not. Should you be expected to try not to do them again? Yes. Should you try to rectify that lack of awareness, so that you can stop doing it unconsciously, simply because that's what you're used to doing? Yes. It's not about trying to rectify the past. It's about trying to rectify the present and the future.
|
|
09dolphin
Member of DD Central
Posts: 630
Likes: 856
|
Post by 09dolphin on Dec 12, 2020 14:16:25 GMT
I wouldn't dream of consciously being racist. My questions to you are are 2 fold. How do you identify unconscious racism? Only if we identify unconscious racism can we hope to deal with it.
Secondly for how long should my brother in laws family be expected to apologise to me and my family for actions one of their family took that was painful at the time but was not an action his family were personally responsible for. Indeed it was an action I forgave many years ago which enabled me to move on.
Perhaps BLM are correct and therefore each and everyone of my family should expect that in a few hundred years my brother in laws family should still be trying to make up for the actions of one member of their family.
My brother in law killed my sister but all I feel is pity that he never learnt to control his temper and that it's a shame that he never was able to accept responsibility for killing a fellow human being.
|
|
travolta
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,458
Likes: 1,167
|
Post by travolta on Dec 12, 2020 16:09:39 GMT
Adrian,you live in Herefordshire for god's sake! Have you actually been to Millwall? Brits dont need 'racial awareness'. We are all in it together. Life is not in a book. Words fail me splutter................... Wander down to W.Africa and wave your book at whats going on down there. Its tribal,like football, only they kill each other. Umm... I haven't always lived here... Apart from anything else, I used to commute by bus along Well Hall Road regularly until a year or so before one of the bus stops along there got a little bit of press coverage thanks to some people who lived not far from me... And, lemme think, last time we visited the friend who lives about a mile from The Den (and a mile or so from where I was born) was earlier this year, thanks. That apart, thank you for proving my point so eloquently. "Oh, look, a squirrel."Quite.We both moved from a London sh*th*le to a leafy white bastion. I'm sure you can count the nonwhites on your fingers. I've two friends who feel it is 'edgy' to be paid up Millwall supporters and they would both be on the pitch bending their knees. However they and you are whited sepulchres preaching from the security of your class and race, as are the pampered footballers who are so relieved to have escaped into the world of football. I have another friend who was on the beach when they massacred half the government of Sierra Leone. He would tell you how happy he is to have escaped to the UK AND how embarrassed he is by all this guff.
|
|
stevepn
Posts: 283
Likes: 89
Member is Online
|
Post by stevepn on Dec 13, 2020 19:44:53 GMT
Do white lives matter? Then let blacks bend the knee also.
|
|
ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 4,830
|
Post by ozboy on Dec 13, 2020 21:08:22 GMT
Do white lives matter? Then let blacks bend the knee also. Do I recall a Lecturer/Professor, at Cambridge or similar, tweeting something about "White lives don't matter", and they not only didn't get reprimanded/sacked, they got promoted? Funny old world. You can google it if yer vaguely interested.
|
|
|
Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 13, 2020 21:37:23 GMT
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,009
Likes: 4,821
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 13, 2020 21:53:06 GMT
Do white lives matter? Then let blacks bend the knee also. Do I recall a Lecturer/Professor, at Cambridge or similar, tweeting something about "White lives don't matter", and they not only didn't get reprimanded/sacked, they got promoted? Funny old world. You can google it if yer vaguely interested. And when the Daily Mail tried to rabble-rouse via an Amanda Platell column frothing over the same partial quote you used, they ended up settling out of court and paying damages... www.theguardian.com/media/2020/nov/13/daily-mail-pays-25000-to-professor-it-falsely-accused-of-inciting-race-war-priyamvada-gopal-fake-tweetsBTW, travolta, the monoculturalism and attitudes here are the worst thing about this place. And, really, who can blame people like a Greek-Cypriot friend of ours who loves the area, and would move tomorrow, but is simply too embarrassed about standing out... Or like next door's mixed-race daughter, who faced all sorts of ...challenges... growing up round here ("blackface" at young farmers parties... in the 2010s...? And not even post-ironic...) so has retreated to the cities to blend in. A little while ago, she was going to take a cake to a picnic with some friends - until her (black) boyfriend found out she was planning to take a knife to cut it with, too, so simply refused to let it into the car... because he knew there was such a high chance of being stopped and searched.
|
|
ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 4,830
|
Post by ozboy on Dec 13, 2020 21:58:11 GMT
Hey, adrianc, you do know what a question mark means, don't you?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,009
Likes: 4,821
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 13, 2020 22:03:58 GMT
Hey, adrianc , you do know what a question mark means, don't you? Was THAT one the rhetorical question?
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 2,767
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 13, 2020 23:09:22 GMT
The entire topic in my view boils down to whether or not you believe in positive discrimination. Its a very old subject. I don't believe in it but I do believe very strongly that racism is a bad thing and we shouldn't tolerate it.
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Sept 21, 2021 22:41:30 GMT
Personally i am a massive advocate and supporter of Black lives matter.... but i do not support the BLM. What is it about "the BLM" rather than "Black lives matter" that causes such a wide difference in your view? It took a while to play out.... i cant be bothered to list the differences... but i think they are pretty clear now.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Sept 22, 2021 10:06:13 GMT
I'm not sure what could have motivated anyone to have asked this question. Taking the knee in football is highly appropriate in the context of stamping out racism in football. Unlike Rugby or other sports, football has a history of rascist outbursts from its fans. The FA is specifically trying to address the issue. I can't speak to the motivation of the original post (and I don't know why blm and BLM are different) but the best way to stamp out racism is through the law. I doubt 'taking the knee' will have any effect greater than making football authorities feel better about themselves. It's tokenism, its meaning already obfuscated if it was ever clear. But it can now take its place next to the pre-match tannoy announcements that racist comments will not be tolerated, and the 'Red Card to Racism' initiative wheeled out every few months as something we can let slip quietly between our ears. I'm not sure why football supporters are considered so direly in need of education. I haven't heard a single racist comment in 30 years of watching my club; I've heard a few listening to our politicians. I do wonder, as an aside, if a self-reverential virtue has crept into football over the period I've been watching it (cf: the ballooning number of minute's silences). And as someone mentioned Remembrance Sunday, interesting that nobody used to argue about footballers wearing poppies – because nobody did in 1990. Armistice day had never been a part of football until it was introduced later that decade. I can remember a black player at Scunthorpe suffering a continuous barrage of chants of "you black XXXXXXX" from fans of a certain Welsh club. The referee was asked and insisted the chant was "you Fat XXXXXXX". mind you this was the same blind referee who sent off a black player when it was clearly a white player who committed the foul, and the FA refused to revoke the punishment as there wasn't a clear camera angle.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Sept 22, 2021 10:17:20 GMT
The entire topic in my view boils down to whether or not you believe in positive discrimination. Its a very old subject. I don't believe in it but I do believe very strongly that racism is a bad thing and we shouldn't tolerate it. NO, DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION Too often I've experienced in the workplace practices which if they were the other way round would lead to successful claims of discrimination. Promotion redundancy etc should be based on a fair set of criteria, not as I saw on occasions "we are trying to raise out proportion of non white staff, so you must take that into account when appointing staff or making redundancies"
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 2,767
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on Sept 22, 2021 10:52:07 GMT
The entire topic in my view boils down to whether or not you believe in positive discrimination. Its a very old subject. I don't believe in it but I do believe very strongly that racism is a bad thing and we shouldn't tolerate it. NO, DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION Too often I've experienced in the workplace practices which if they were the other way round would lead to successful claims of discrimination. Promotion redundancy etc should be based on a fair set of criteria, not as I saw on occasions "we are trying to raise out proportion of non white staff, so you must take that into account when appointing staff or making redundancies" See above.
|
|