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Post by fuzzyiceberg on May 1, 2021 6:32:56 GMT
As usual Zopa have not helped themelves. On my tax statement I also have a small amount against 'bonus of which taxable' with the note 2 against it. (Note 2 says cashback bonus are not taxable). I think that is a general note and is simply trying to explain why the entire total under bonuses may not be taxable, where some of the total bonus amount represents cashback bonuses. In my case all my bonus is taxable and represents the few pennies I got from the final safeguard payout. Note 2 is not trying to say the amount under taxable bonus is not, actually, taxable. Zopa would have been better to attach note 2 to the total bonus line to make things clearer.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 1, 2021 7:29:43 GMT
As usual Zopa have not helped themelves. On my tax statement I also have a small amount against 'bonus of which taxable' with the note 2 against it. (Note 2 says cashback bonus are not taxable). I think that is a general note and is simply trying to explain why the entire total under bonuses may not be taxable, where some of the total bonus amount represents cashback bonuses. In my case all my bonus is taxable and represents the few pennies I got from the final safeguard payout. Note 2 is not trying to say the amount under taxable bonus is not, actually, taxable. Zopa would have been better to attach note 2 to the total bonus line to make things clearer. I hadn't though about possible safeguard bonuses. Do we know if the account adjustment bonus is taxable or not? Looking at 2020/21 tax year, on my account part of my bonus is not taxable, and I thought that might be the account adjustment bonus. If I look at 2021/22 tax year I only have a non taxable bonus on my account which looks uncannily like the EAB payment (which should be taxable) or are they doing more than one (non taxable) account adjustment and the EAB bonus has maybe just been added to interest. I'll watch it closely this month to see what happens.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 1, 2021 11:22:07 GMT
As usual Zopa have not helped themelves. On my tax statement I also have a small amount against 'bonus of which taxable' with the note 2 against it. (Note 2 says cashback bonus are not taxable). I think that is a general note and is simply trying to explain why the entire total under bonuses may not be taxable, where some of the total bonus amount represents cashback bonuses. In my case all my bonus is taxable and represents the few pennies I got from the final safeguard payout. Note 2 is not trying to say the amount under taxable bonus is not, actually, taxable. Zopa would have been better to attach note 2 to the total bonus line to make things clearer. I hadn't though about possible safeguard bonuses. Do we know if the account adjustment bonus is taxable or not? Looking at 2020/21 tax year, on my account part of my bonus is not taxable, and I thought that might be the account adjustment bonus. If I look at 2021/22 tax year I only have a non taxable bonus on my account which looks uncannily like the EAB payment (which should be taxable) or are they doing more than one (non taxable) account adjustment and the EAB bonus has maybe just been added to interest. I'll watch it closely this month to see what happens. Curiosity is killing me - what is the account adjustment bonus. I'll assume you mean the adjustments made to make the statements add up to the topline. If it is that then my understanding from some of mine and mrs aju's adjustments is that they were just a visual statements thing. Mrs aju has one for £5.60 appeared recently. I think that was one that got left out of the original repayments made a couple of years ago or at least last year hence its a non taxable bonus just to make the sums add up. if you ask me though - and i have voiced this with Zopa - it's becoming more of a confusing mess than the old system had become. The customer in me rather than the ex programmer/developer is starting to wonder if the underneath the hood part is also flawed as well certainly from what i can see it starts to make me less comfortable my money is safe.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 1, 2021 12:29:36 GMT
I hadn't though about possible safeguard bonuses. Do we know if the account adjustment bonus is taxable or not? Looking at 2020/21 tax year, on my account part of my bonus is not taxable, and I thought that might be the account adjustment bonus. If I look at 2021/22 tax year I only have a non taxable bonus on my account which looks uncannily like the EAB payment (which should be taxable) or are they doing more than one (non taxable) account adjustment and the EAB bonus has maybe just been added to interest. I'll watch it closely this month to see what happens. Curiosity is killing me - what is the account adjustment bonus. I'll assume you mean the adjustments made to make the statements add up to the topline. If it is that then my understanding from some of mine and mrs aju's adjustments is that they were just a visual statements thing. Mrs aju has one for £5.60 appeared recently. I think that was one that got left out of the original repayments made a couple of years ago or at least last year hence its a non taxable bonus just to make the sums add up. if you ask me though - and i have voiced this with Zopa - it's becoming more of a confusing mess than the old system had become. The customer in me rather than the ex programmer/developer is starting to wonder if the underneath the hood part is also flawed as well certainly from what i can see it starts to make me less comfortable my money is safe. Yes that's what I meant. I wasn't sure if it would be taxable depending if, when we actually got the money sometime in the past we paid tax then, or if it wasn't on the statements (including the tax statement?) we didn't pay tax on it at the time we got it so would pay tax retrospectively now. To confuse me more I can see a taxable bonus (that I cannot account for) on another account that I have access to and untaxed bonuses on my account that I can't explain.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 1, 2021 12:48:17 GMT
Curiosity is killing me - what is the account adjustment bonus. I'll assume you mean the adjustments made to make the statements add up to the topline. If it is that then my understanding from some of mine and mrs aju's adjustments is that they were just a visual statements thing. Mrs aju has one for £5.60 appeared recently. I think that was one that got left out of the original repayments made a couple of years ago or at least last year hence its a non taxable bonus just to make the sums add up. if you ask me though - and i have voiced this with Zopa - it's becoming more of a confusing mess than the old system had become. The customer in me rather than the ex programmer/developer is starting to wonder if the underneath the hood part is also flawed as well certainly from what i can see it starts to make me less comfortable my money is safe. Yes that's what I meant. I wasn't sure if it would be taxable depending if, when we actually got the money sometime in the past we paid tax then, or if it wasn't on the statements (including the tax statement?) we didn't pay tax on it at the time we got it so would pay tax retrospectively now. To confuse me more I can see a taxable bonus (that I cannot account for) on another account that I have access to and untaxed bonuses on my account that I can't explain. Thing is i get the impression there are not that many people bothering them with any of this confusion or worse incorrect information. The biggest worry i have is that they do not seem to understand things at the front end and they keep talking about tribes and the like whereas there is probably only 1 or 2 people left who know how the original system worked, definitely feels like i have to guide them in finding simple issues let alone complicated ones. My main worry is that I never used to care what they were doing when i had access to the detailed statements as i could just analyse it myself to see what had happened. Now i feel completely blind and even worse have loans that have just disappeared from view. I'm pretty certain anyone who had any loans that - in their words - finished between the old final runs and the new system being installed when they took the decision to not include them in the new loanbook data, will have them missing but probably unaware. As I said in another thread the logic in that is somewhat flawed as there are old loans that the fit their description of the reason they are missing that are still there in the new loanbook. From their description of the events i have only been able to determine that they delayed the update by a week or so and in that period the old system was translated and the new system picked up a week later with a new update from the old system that left out loans completed in the missing weeks period. With my own data from before the change I was able to pinpoint one loan was planned a last payment during the missing period but its missing in the new data completely - I can only assume it closed - but the other missing loans were not due to finish and did not seem in any likelihood of defaulting either. Who knows but I asked them to supply the missing data a month ago and reiterated to my Zopa contact that I will not accept them not supplying this missing data. Not sure where this will go but going to the FCA regarding this has just under 4 weeks left on my patience.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 9, 2021 13:56:58 GMT
Yes that's what I meant. I wasn't sure if it would be taxable depending if, when we actually got the money sometime in the past we paid tax then, or if it wasn't on the statements (including the tax statement?) we didn't pay tax on it at the time we got it so would pay tax retrospectively now. To confuse me more I can see a taxable bonus (that I cannot account for) on another account that I have access to and untaxed bonuses on my account that I can't explain. Thing is i get the impression there are not that many people bothering them with any of this confusion or worse incorrect information. The biggest worry i have is that they do not seem to understand things at the front end and they keep talking about tribes and the like whereas there is probably only 1 or 2 people left who know how the original system worked, definitely feels like i have to guide them in finding simple issues let alone complicated ones. My main worry is that I never used to care what they were doing when i had access to the detailed statements as i could just analyse it myself to see what had happened. Now i feel completely blind and even worse have loans that have just disappeared from view. I'm pretty certain anyone who had any loans that - in their words - finished between the old final runs and the new system being installed when they took the decision to not include them in the new loanbook data, will have them missing but probably unaware. As I said in another thread the logic in that is somewhat flawed as there are old loans that the fit their description of the reason they are missing that are still there in the new loanbook. From their description of the events i have only been able to determine that they delayed the update by a week or so and in that period the old system was translated and the new system picked up a week later with a new update from the old system that left out loans completed in the missing weeks period. With my own data from before the change I was able to pinpoint one loan was planned a last payment during the missing period but its missing in the new data completely - I can only assume it closed - but the other missing loans were not due to finish and did not seem in any likelihood of defaulting either. Who knows but I asked them to supply the missing data a month ago and reiterated to my Zopa contact that I will not accept them not supplying this missing data. Not sure where this will go but going to the FCA regarding this has just under 4 weeks left on my patience. Asked Zopa to clarify the bonuses and I got a reply basically saying they don't give tax advice, and we should decide what is or isn't taxable ourselves, which is a bit odd since they tell us exactly the amount of taxable income to declare to HMRC (taking into account taxable and untaxable bonuses) on the income statement! Something has changed, but I'm not sure I will ever get an explanation of what or why.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 9, 2021 15:48:35 GMT
<snipped see above Asked Zopa to clarify the bonuses and I got a reply basically saying they don't give tax advice, and we should decide what is or isn't taxable ourselves, which is a bit odd since they tell us exactly the amount of taxable income to declare to HMRC (taking into account taxable and untaxable bonuses) on the income statement! Something has changed, but I'm not sure I will ever get an explanation of what or why. This is what i got recently from Zopa So I pushed back again but am waiting to see what the new bonus statements look like - i suspect they will not have tax references at all from the above statement. I'm pushing quite hard and my last comment in this aspect was along the lines of the only bonus i get that should be taxable is Early Adopter so i should be able to sort this out (I have a calculator in my spread sheet that estimates what it should be anyway.) I did add that should the Tax man wish to investigate me at some point and they are not happy with me just guessing what my tax is then i would expect Zopa to provide the relevant detailed taxable items as minimum. I have not had a response on that one. In my case though its quite simple to see the items in the yearly tax report pdf. My response to their push backs on this area though was as follows. In my view they are getting worse and as you said previous i'm also convinced there are few people in Zopa now that really understand this at an acceptable level. We will see of course. They have promised to provide me loanbook data detailing my lost loans so i have not had to poke the FCA yet in anger. I would add that whilst i know how to do the maths on the Tax statement many people would not i feel. Zopa does seem to get the tax statment correct but to say the detail is iffy is an understatement.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 23, 2021 15:09:30 GMT
Asked Zopa to clarify the bonuses and I got a reply basically saying they don't give tax advice, and we should decide what is or isn't taxable ourselves, which is a bit odd since they tell us exactly the amount of taxable income to declare to HMRC (taking into account taxable and untaxable bonuses) on the income statement! Something has changed, but I'm not sure I will ever get an explanation of what or why. This is what i got recently from Zopa So I pushed back again but am waiting to see what the new bonus statements look like - i suspect they will not have tax references at all from the above statement. I'm pushing quite hard and my last comment in this aspect was along the lines of the only bonus i get that should be taxable is Early Adopter so i should be able to sort this out (I have a calculator in my spread sheet that estimates what it should be anyway.) I did add that should the Tax man wish to investigate me at some point and they are not happy with me just guessing what my tax is then i would expect Zopa to provide the relevant detailed taxable items as minimum. I have not had a response on that one. In my case though its quite simple to see the items in the yearly tax report pdf. My response to their push backs on this area though was as follows. In my view they are getting worse and as you said previous i'm also convinced there are few people in Zopa now that really understand this at an acceptable level. We will see of course. They have promised to provide me loanbook data detailing my lost loans so i have not had to poke the FCA yet in anger. I would add that whilst i know how to do the maths on the Tax statement many people would not i feel. Zopa does seem to get the tax statment correct but to say the detail is iffy is an understatement. I now have an answer (of sorts) all of the bonuses on my 20/21 statement are EAB, but some of it is not included in the 'of which taxable', so I have some EAB taxable and some not. This is apparently because they don't (no longer) give tax advice and at some random point in the tax year they apparently stopped saying the EAB is taxable (so as to not give advice?) and the rest was dumped into not taxable (is that giving advice?), obviously without changing the notes to give any clue about what they had done. How I'm meant to know all of this is a mystery, basically do not believe the 'this is your taxable income' it may or may not be.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 23, 2021 15:35:48 GMT
This is what i got recently from Zopa So I pushed back again but am waiting to see what the new bonus statements look like - i suspect they will not have tax references at all from the above statement. I'm pushing quite hard and my last comment in this aspect was along the lines of the only bonus i get that should be taxable is Early Adopter so i should be able to sort this out (I have a calculator in my spread sheet that estimates what it should be anyway.) I did add that should the Tax man wish to investigate me at some point and they are not happy with me just guessing what my tax is then i would expect Zopa to provide the relevant detailed taxable items as minimum. I have not had a response on that one. In my case though its quite simple to see the items in the yearly tax report pdf. My response to their push backs on this area though was as follows. In my view they are getting worse and as you said previous i'm also convinced there are few people in Zopa now that really understand this at an acceptable level. We will see of course. They have promised to provide me loanbook data detailing my lost loans so i have not had to poke the FCA yet in anger. I would add that whilst i know how to do the maths on the Tax statement many people would not i feel. Zopa does seem to get the tax statment correct but to say the detail is iffy is an understatement. I now have an answer (of sorts) all of the bonuses on my 20/21 statement are EAB, but some of it is not included in the 'of which taxable', so I have some EAB taxable and some not. This is apparently because they don't (no longer) give tax advice and at some random point in the tax year they apparently stopped saying the EAB is taxable (so as to not give advice?) and the rest was dumped into not taxable (is that giving advice?), obviously without changing the notes to give any clue about what they had done. How I'm meant to know all of this is a mystery, basically do not believe the 'this is your taxable income' it may or may not be. I didn't snip the above like this the system did! Anyway, i could not agree more, "Huge Mess" just does not cut it though. Just out of interest what are the not included items as I checked my EAB for 20/21 and it lined up - apparently the last 2 months (after the changes) were actually marked up in 21/22 statements but are actually referring to FEB and Mar missing EAB items. Its not easy though but to be fair I checked the values against those coming in and in my case they do line up with the 20/12 statements. (Mind you i've got enough old records going back to be making more accurate assumptions than most probably could or worse even care about. If the HMRC doesn't like what they see then that my be a whole different ball game. I'm not sure that the new development team actually know what they are doing but that just an educated guess! ) As my EAB is getting smaller and smaller now that i am bailing out i'm not sure the taxman will be interested in a few months anyway it will be so small for me. Edit: I forgot to mention the new statements are not actually a true record as the old statements were - well most of the time until they had errors - Apparently the new system changes have missed quite a bit of data (they are really been annoyed by my constant reports to them I think!) It would seem they have only fixed stuff on a statement entry on the fly as one off fixes, hence the reason the statements do not EAB for Feb and March this is now fixed in stone. I suspect that unlike the old system the statements were created as one called for them where as the new one is in a secondary table that is accesses when the screen is created. So my best guess is that they created a fix run that changes the relevant data for the given loans and lenders in the statements table - that is just a guess though. I have been known to be wrong in the past.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 23, 2021 17:23:15 GMT
I now have an answer (of sorts) all of the bonuses on my 20/21 statement are EAB, but some of it is not included in the 'of which taxable', so I have some EAB taxable and some not. This is apparently because they don't (no longer) give tax advice and at some random point in the tax year they apparently stopped saying the EAB is taxable (so as to not give advice?) and the rest was dumped into not taxable (is that giving advice?), obviously without changing the notes to give any clue about what they had done. How I'm meant to know all of this is a mystery, basically do not believe the 'this is your taxable income' it may or may not be. I didn't snip the above like this the system did! Anyway, i could not agree more, "Huge Mess" just does not cut it though. Just out of interest what are the not included items as I checked my EAB for 20/21 and it lined up - apparently the last 2 months (after the changes) were actually marked up in 21/22 statements but are actually referring to FEB and Mar missing EAB items. Its not easy though but to be fair I checked the values against those coming in and in my case they do line up with the 20/12 statements. (Mind you i've got enough old records going back to be making more accurate assumptions than most probably could or worse even care about. If the HMRC doesn't like what they see then that my be a whole different ball game. I'm not sure that the new development team actually know what they are doing but that just an educated guess! ) As my EAB is getting smaller and smaller now that i am bailing out i'm not sure the taxman will be interested in a few months anyway it will be so small for me. Edit: I forgot to mention the new statements are not actually a true record as the old statements were - well most of the time until they had errors - Apparently the new system changes have missed quite a bit of data (they are really been annoyed by my constant reports to them I think!) It would seem they have only fixed stuff on a statement entry on the fly as one off fixes, hence the reason the statements do not EAB for Feb and March this is now fixed in stone. I suspect that unlike the old system the statements were created as one called for them where as the new one is in a secondary table that is accesses when the screen is created. So my best guess is that they created a fix run that changes the relevant data for the given loans and lenders in the statements table - that is just a guess though. I have been known to be wrong in the past. I have taxable and non taxable bonuses on my 20/21 income statement, I asked for a breakdown so I could determine what the untaxable was, the breakdown and narrative in the email says it's all EAB (both taxable and not taxable) and I have to decide myself what is taxable or not, bizarre. Most of the EAB is declared as taxable, but about a couple of months worth apparently is not taxable. It's just plainly wrong, but the tribe says....we don't give tax advice. I use this statement for my tax declaration!
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 23, 2021 18:35:04 GMT
I didn't snip the above like this the system did! Anyway, i could not agree more, "Huge Mess" just does not cut it though. Just out of interest what are the not included items as I checked my EAB for 20/21 and it lined up - apparently the last 2 months (after the changes) were actually marked up in 21/22 statements but are actually referring to FEB and Mar missing EAB items. Its not easy though but to be fair I checked the values against those coming in and in my case they do line up with the 20/12 statements. (Mind you i've got enough old records going back to be making more accurate assumptions than most probably could or worse even care about. If the HMRC doesn't like what they see then that my be a whole different ball game. I'm not sure that the new development team actually know what they are doing but that just an educated guess! ) As my EAB is getting smaller and smaller now that i am bailing out i'm not sure the taxman will be interested in a few months anyway it will be so small for me. Edit: I forgot to mention the new statements are not actually a true record as the old statements were - well most of the time until they had errors - Apparently the new system changes have missed quite a bit of data (they are really been annoyed by my constant reports to them I think!) It would seem they have only fixed stuff on a statement entry on the fly as one off fixes, hence the reason the statements do not EAB for Feb and March this is now fixed in stone. I suspect that unlike the old system the statements were created as one called for them where as the new one is in a secondary table that is accesses when the screen is created. So my best guess is that they created a fix run that changes the relevant data for the given loans and lenders in the statements table - that is just a guess though. I have been known to be wrong in the past. I have taxable and non taxable bonuses on my 20/21 income statement, I asked for a breakdown so I could determine what the untaxable was, the breakdown and narrative in the email says it's all EAB (both taxable and not taxable) and I have to decide myself what is taxable or not, bizarre. Most of the EAB is declared as taxable, but about a couple of months worth apparently is not taxable. It's just plainly wrong, but the tribe says....we don't give tax advice. I use this statement for my tax declaration! Bit odd, it cannot be right that Zopa cannot define what is taxable and what isn't. Its true i too have items marked as taxable and also non taxable but not EAB items. Zopa dropped the EAB identifier in the new system but in my case as I said i had all the statements in my spreadsheet so when i knew there were issues i created a column that tells me what the EAB is in both my STD and ISA. Its not always 100% the same but in my case i was able to identify the missed items in fab and march in the april payments. (I did query all of this with them and they advised me that this was the case also i was expecting it so i watched the payments with a fine toothed comb and used my estimates for feb and march as a guide. To be fair there were 2 payments in april for EAB that i watched as they arrived. The second one was at the end of the month and the earlier feb/mar items were earlier. I used my estimates to split them as best i could. I was of course only able to monitor this as when i queried the missing Feb and March items Zopa has advised that they were fixing it and it would appear in April so i was waiting for it knowing there might be odd items that i would need to decifer myself. I have looked back at my notes and i can see that i asked the question how Zopa expects users to be able to figure out what is taxable and what is not if they don't clarify it specifically. I am still conversing with them and i'll ask my contact to clarify how Zopa thinks we are to be able to figure out what is taxable and what is not if they don't identify the items. I don't hold out much hope though but if they cannot be clear i might ask the HMRC what they think - i'll tell Zopa i am going to do this and see what their response is. I might poke it into the CEO as well but i've been told not to expect a fast answers from her either!. A bank that has no interest in taxable items is bit weird to say the least!. I won't hold my breath though. ( My own thoughts on this level of calamity is that Zopa might be heading for a big fall but who knows what the regs would do if this were flagged to them either. My instinct is no one seems to care anymore about this stuff!.)
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Jun 24, 2021 8:58:48 GMT
IMO much of this discussion is moot. Zopa must produce accurate tax statements since investors will clearly rely on them when settling their affairs with HMRC. No judge or Inspector will expect investors to second guess Zopa's statements. If there is evidence that the statements are wrong Zopa should be reported to HMRC and the FCA.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jun 24, 2021 9:57:31 GMT
IMO much of this discussion is moot. Zopa must produce accurate tax statements since investors will clearly rely on them when settling their affairs with HMRC. No judge or Inspector will expect investors to second guess Zopa's statements. If there is evidence that the statements are wrong Zopa should be reported to HMRC and the FCA. I agree 100% but having been working with Zopa since Mid Feb fixing missed/lost loans, statement errors and i think quite a few other issues with the updates as i understand it I'm not sure it will make much of a difference. I would say their 2020/21 data does have errors in statements but for myself and Mrs Aju the actual end of tax year statement is correct as far as i can tell from my own data info - whilst its not correct for statements the Feb and March items did appear in April but they were actually recorded in the 20/21 tax statement. Going forward with missing/incorrect info in statements, it's there but it's not easily identifiable at present for me anyway as i am waiting for some promised updates that won't show until . I have complained about the incorrect designations and they have said they are making further changes but until I see this months EAB entries i cannot see how i can help personally but if enough people report issues they can see they will surely have to look again at it. (I am working with one of the lead account people but to be honest its very slow going - the tribe are probably off warring with other tribes perhaps ) That's my slant others can poke them if they wish I guess. Edit: Just been doing check for funds that can be poked back to our banks and remembered i had seen the following statement appear recently if anyone has not as yet seen it. It may explain there is a disconnect between statements data and the live data. This seem to imply they just poked numbers into the statements to make the totals add up regardless of whether they are correct or worse relevant to the particular month. (This is not that relevant to our issues except that they seem now to be just poking numbers in anywhere to make the totals add up to the top line info. My thought is that this is might be the reason they are floundering with different bonus items etc)
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 24, 2021 20:10:02 GMT
IMO much of this discussion is moot. Zopa must produce accurate tax statements since investors will clearly rely on them when settling their affairs with HMRC. No judge or Inspector will expect investors to second guess Zopa's statements. If there is evidence that the statements are wrong Zopa should be reported to HMRC and the FCA. Tell that to Zopa! They say it's our problem. I've pursued it and although they sort of admit the statement is wrong they just say it's up to lenders to figure it out, and they don't give tax advice. I don't understand how Zopa can say the gross numbers are right but the statement totals are wrong because their assumptions of what is taxable is not correct (which I was told). They are saying they will no longer say what is taxable or not, which may be fine for future tax years if they tell you exactly what the bonuses are, but changing things mid tax year with no explanation seems unacceptable to me.
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Post by fuzzyiceberg on Jun 25, 2021 9:35:14 GMT
This is the usual avoidance tactics beloved of institions - claiming to be unable to give tax advice. They just dont want to train their junior Braves and Squaws properly. But it doesnt invalidate their responsibility to produce an accurate tax statement clearly showing what investors have been paid. And they can't just try to fob you off with, say a number with no analysis, some of which may or may not be taxable, and simply say 'guess'. If they try that I would report them to the FCA and HMRC. That said my last investment account tax statement (for 20/21) was clear with an analysis of what I had been paid and how much was not taxable with a net amount to report at the bottom. Was yours not clear?
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