michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2021 10:42:24 GMT
What prompted me to write this was today's reporting of the Russian elections. Some of the detail of the article read reasonably well to me - they even stated "Putin remains popular among many Russians who credit him for standing up to the west" which I think is true.
But when Trump was alleging all kinds of voting irregularities in the US presidential election I remember the tone of the articles very clearly indicating the allegations were coming from Trump. But here, when reporting Russian elections you have to get past the headline and dig deep to realise the allegations of fraud also come from the opposition.
Why leads me on to clarify what happened to Navalny was bad. However much involvement or not the Russian government had, they should have done everything to remove even the whiff of partiality. If Putin is so popular (which as I've said I think he is) he should have nothing to lose and its a shame he didn't do more to help Navalny even though they are pollical rivals.
What I suppose I'm complaining about here is our state broadcaster and probably much of the rest of the mainstream press reporting the election as they do so that most people's impressions are of some kind of oppressed people living under a dictator putin.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 10:59:52 GMT
I think the issue is since most information that goes to the public in Russia comes from state owned TV and press.
That since the opposition is constantly harassed, killed and attacked by the state.
That since the opposition is seldom allowed to stand in elections.
That since the recent election actually shows people ballot stuffing in support of Putin
It is a dictatorship, by controlling the information, by not allowing alternatives to be elected the people cannot make up their own minds because they are not allowed to see the alternatives.
It is "democractic" fraud on a massive scale.
On top of this horrible fraud, the Putin regime also pushes a form on Nationalism (this is not patriotism) which is one of the ugliest excuses for his behaviour.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 20, 2021 11:15:55 GMT
michaelc, out of interest, are you in any doubt that the FSB under the direct orders of Putin attempted to murder Navalny with poison? And similarly that the FSB under orders of Putin murdered Alexander Litvenenko, and attempted similar in Salisbury?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2021 12:15:16 GMT
michaelc , out of interest, are you in any doubt that the FSB under the direct orders of Putin attempted to murder Navalny with poison? And similarly that the FSB under orders of Putin murdered Alexander Litvenenko, and attempted similar in Salisbury? Not in much doubt unfortunately. A bit like the President of the USA saying he planned to murder those that commmited murder at Kabul airport recently. All states are at it.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2021 12:23:44 GMT
I think the issue is since most information that goes to the public in Russia comes from state owned TV and press.
That since the opposition is constantly harassed, killed and attacked by the state.
That since the opposition is seldom allowed to stand in elections.
That since the recent election actually shows people ballot stuffing in support of Putin
It is a dictatorship, by controlling the information, by not allowing alternatives to be elected the people cannot make up their own minds because they are not allowed to see the alternatives.
It is "democractic" fraud on a massive scale.
On top of this horrible fraud, the Putin regime also pushes a form on Nationalism (this is not patriotism) which is one of the ugliest excuses for his behaviour.
Not at all. Like our non-aging population, people get their news and TV online and they can read what they want. It isn't the USSR. If they're desperate they could even get our "great" BBC. Conversely, where I am now (Ukraine) I can't easily get rt.com as it is blocked and Ukraine is considered a great friend of the west following all the liberal democracy rules etc so that both russia and the west can fk up another country without affecting their own populations. There's a shed load of US special forces pouring into the country "advising" which we won't here much about until it flares up again at the border with Russia - the US embassy here is more of a huge compound than a normal embassy. My point is most governments are doing their best to censor (and kill in the name of security). Some like Saudi are at the worst end of the spectrum and others seem like nicer places to live in (e.g. scandanavia).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 13:01:23 GMT
No, I don't think that was your point at all.
You were suggesting that Putin was not a dictator.
You were suggesting that our "state" media (of course they arn't state at all) are trying to reinforce that fact against all evidence.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2021 15:44:47 GMT
No, I don't think that was your point at all.
You were suggesting that Putin was not a dictator.
You were suggesting that our "state" media (of course they arn't state at all) are trying to reinforce that fact against all evidence.
Have to address that one. In what way are they not state? Paid for out of taxes and directed by the relevant minister. Putin is absolutely not a dictator.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 20, 2021 16:19:15 GMT
Putin is absolutely not a dictator. * a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force. * a person who behaves in an autocratic way There's a fig leaf or two between how Putin operates and those definitions.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 20, 2021 16:29:53 GMT
Putin is absolutely not a dictator. * a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force. * a person who behaves in an autocratic way There's a fig leaf or two between how Putin operates and those definitions. I might meet you half way on that....
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 20, 2021 18:04:13 GMT
Mighty generous of you sir, mighty generous .
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Sept 20, 2021 21:14:20 GMT
Problem with all elections fair or foul, the electorate alway end up paying .....
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 21, 2021 7:32:33 GMT
But when Trump was alleging all kinds of voting irregularities in the US presidential election I remember the tone of the articles very clearly indicating the allegations were coming from Trump. But here, when reporting Russian elections you have to get past the headline and dig deep to realise the allegations of fraud also come from the opposition. Umm, isn't it consistent? The allegations come from the loser. The difference is that Trump's claims were steaming...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2021 9:44:16 GMT
No, I don't think that was your point at all.
You were suggesting that Putin was not a dictator.
You were suggesting that our "state" media (of course they arn't state at all) are trying to reinforce that fact against all evidence.
Have to address that one. In what way are they not state? Paid for out of taxes and directed by the relevant minister. Putin is absolutely not a dictator. LOL, clearly you don't understand how either the BBC is funded or controlled. Nor it seems, how Putin is elected. Apart from those two core facts......
I understand it is hard to see this stuff and feel convinced. I invested an hour a day for a year to watch RT and finally concluded it was laughable parody of openness. Invest the same.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Sept 21, 2021 10:19:04 GMT
Have to address that one. In what way are they not state? Paid for out of taxes and directed by the relevant minister. Putin is absolutely not a dictator. LOL, clearly you don't understand how either the BBC is funded or controlled. Nor it seems, how Putin is elected. Apart from those two core facts......
I understand it is hard to see this stuff and feel convinced. I invested an hour a day for a year to watch RT and finally concluded it was laughable parody of openness. Invest the same.
I occasionally wonder what difference who is in charge would make to a деревня idiotski, probably not a lot I suspect, Currently I seem to be governed by 600 odd people, none of whom I would entrust to clean the toilet. Would one strong minded individual who trucks no opposition make my lot any worse? My non optional TV licence costs me more than Sky sports and Amazon prime combined so yep State sponsored even if indirectly. That about covers my interest in the topics so....... as you were.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 21, 2021 10:34:07 GMT
I occasionally wonder what difference who is in charge would make to a деревня idiotski, probably not a lot I suspect, Currently I seem to be governed by 600 odd people, none of whom I would entrust to clean the toilet. Would one strong minded individual who trucks no opposition make my lot any worse? My non optional TV licence costs me more than Sky sports and Amazon prime combined so yep State sponsored even if indirectly. That about covers my interest in the topics so....... as you were. don't forget the other layers of idiot governing us in Wales and Scotland we have additional governments who seem determined to prove the are different by bringing in extra rules, then you have the layers of local government etc
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