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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 9:58:10 GMT
read it, not sure why it is a concern
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 9:59:53 GMT
Smart Meters allow remote switching to a pre-payment meter. I'll bet that has come as a shock to many people. No doubt highlighted in bold in the harassing rollout fiasco !
if the pre-payment meter has to be installed, no if the pre-payment meter is pre-installed, yes and so what?
once again this all part of a Daily Mail Telegraph nonsense message to give people who fear change something to depend on. Move on
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Post by overthehill on Jan 21, 2023 10:46:32 GMT
Smart Meters allow remote switching to a pre-payment meter. I'll bet that has come as a shock to many people. No doubt highlighted in bold in the harassing rollout fiasco !
if the pre-payment meter has to be installed, no if the pre-payment meter is pre-installed, yes and so what?
once again this all part of a Daily Mail Telegraph nonsense message to give people who fear change something to depend on. Move on
I'm not sure what you're going on about, installation ? I'm talking about the smart meter can function as a credit or pre-payment meter with a simple click of a mouse. Quite a bit different than a traditional meter especially for people who are probably not as comfortable as you and have good reason to fear things like their electricity or gas being cut-off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 11:01:26 GMT
see second line
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Post by Ace on Jan 21, 2023 11:23:24 GMT
read it, not sure why it is a concern I agree. I didn't find anything in the article that was concerning. They're still detailing problems with the old SMETS1 meters, which wouldn't be fitted now. I find mine to be very useful and convenient. I had coffee with a couple yesterday who had been scared off having one fitted by similar disinformation. They then asked whether it would be cheaper to heat the home with gas in the daytime or to use an electric fire in one room (face palm emoji).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 21, 2023 11:28:36 GMT
if the pre-payment meter has to be installed, no if the pre-payment meter is pre-installed, yes and so what?
once again this all part of a Daily Mail Telegraph nonsense message to give people who fear change something to depend on. Move on
I'm not sure what you're going on about, installation ? I'm talking about the smart meter can function as a credit or pre-payment meter with a simple click of a mouse. Quite a bit different than a traditional meter especially for people who are probably not as comfortable as you and have good reason to fear things like their electricity or gas being cut-off.
Seems clear-cut to me. Situation 1 - a meter that can double as credit and pre-pay. Situation 2 - a meter that cannot double as credit and pre-pay. A customer is in arrears to the point that their supplier wants to move them from credit to pre-pay. That's legally at least 28 days after the arrears have been chased. They can't legally just do it "at the click of a mouse". They're getting moved, no matter what... Being in situation 2 won't stop it. Situation 2 merely delays the inevitable, and increases the cost that will end up on the arrears. It also rules out paying online for the pre-pay credit. They still legally have to give the same notice to change over, and clearing the arrears in that time will stop the move. Legally, that's 7 working days for gas, 7 calendar days for electricity. Is it a bad thing that people are in this position? Yes, of course. Is it a bad thing that energy costs most for those who can afford it least? Yes, of course. But getting deeper into arrears helps nobody...
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 21, 2023 11:32:53 GMT
Is having smart meter a concern? Yes, if engineers can't finished the installation properly.
Smart meters could make it harder to switch gas and electricity providers? I can't switch any deals at the moment regardless I have a smart meter or not
You might miss out on the best energy deals? Yes, it's possible to miss out best energy if they insist the premise is connect to a economy 7 scheme
Data privacy concerns still weigh heavy? NO
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 21, 2023 12:03:34 GMT
I'm not sure what you're going on about, installation ? I'm talking about the smart meter can function as a credit or pre-payment meter with a simple click of a mouse. Quite a bit different than a traditional meter especially for people who are probably not as comfortable as you and have good reason to fear things like their electricity or gas being cut-off.
Seems clear-cut to me. Situation 1 - a meter that can double as credit and pre-pay. Situation 2 - a meter that cannot double as credit and pre-pay. A customer is in arrears to the point that their supplier wants to move them from credit to pre-pay. That's legally at least 28 days after the arrears have been chased. They can't legally just do it "at the click of a mouse". They're getting moved, no matter what... Being in situation 2 won't stop it. Situation 2 merely delays the inevitable, and increases the cost that will end up on the arrears. It also rules out paying online for the pre-pay credit. They still legally have to give the same notice to change over, and clearing the arrears in that time will stop the move. Legally, that's 7 working days for gas, 7 calendar days for electricity. Is it a bad thing that people are in this position? Yes, of course. Is it a bad thing that energy costs most for those who can afford it least? Yes, of course. But getting deeper into arrears helps nobody... You are aware of the current massive scandal over the enforced switching of people onto prepayment meters with suppliers & courts failing to follow the proper legal procedures. They may legally have to do certain things but there is strong evidence they are not. While this applies to phyisical meter installations I doubt that it isnt also happening with smart meter switching, certainly seems to be anecdotal evidence inews.co.uk/news/prepayment-energy-meter-warrants-ministers-magistrates-2077936?ico=most_popular
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 21, 2023 12:23:11 GMT
You are aware of the current massive scandal over the enforced switching of people onto prepayment meters with suppliers & courts failing to follow the proper legal procedures. They may legally have to do certain things but there is strong evidence they are not. There should be a law against it! Working link - inews.co.uk/news/prepayment-energy-meter-warrants-ministers-magistrates-2077936That article doesn't say they aren't following the correct legal processes, though. It just says that magistrates are nodding through lists of names, without going into every single one individually. British Gas alone did nearly 25,000 last year. Is it realistic to expect the overloaded court system to go into each one in depth? I'd suggest not. Should the court system be less overloaded? Absolutely!
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 21, 2023 12:44:37 GMT
and of course you get the stories
3 recent ones
"I was in hospital for 3 months and when I came home my freezer had defrosted because I'd been put on a prepayment meter whilst in hospital "
IMO they must have been in arrears already, the same would apply to anyone living alone in hospital on a credit meter.
"I've been forced onto a credit meter and can't afford it" then the article goes on to say she hasn't paid for gas or electric for several years, So the tariff she has been put on will be recovering some of the debt which must be thousands of pounds.
"my electric went off and we spent the night without heat thinking it was a power cut, I didn't know they were putting me on a prepayment meter" to get to that stage you must have ignored a lot of letters.
there has to be some system to ensure that people pay, one issue is that standing charges have rocketed. Adrian is poor and on a prepayment meter recovering a debt of £500, he uses 2kWh a day boiling kettle and running fridge, he is being charged £1 a unit to recover the debt and a 50P standing charge he is paying ( not being charged ) £1.25 kWh. Theresa is wealthy and uses 20kWh per day at 35p and so pays £7.50 or 37.5pkWh Keith is trying to be green and invested a lump of his capital in a battery system he uses 20kWh per day 10kWh is at 7.5P ( cheap overnight ). plus 11 @ 42P ( 11 allows for charging / discharge loses ) so he pays 75P + £4.62 + 50P £5.87, the battery cost £2500 and will last 10 Years , so a daily cost of 70P total 6.57 or 33p kWh. Alice is a Pensioner she uses 5kWh a day @40p plus standing charge of 50P she is paying 50P kWh
it seems that being poor or frugal is penalised being green is certainly penalised in the 8 months when solar exceeds usage, when the effective cost per kWh can be £5 plus ( Some weeks in the summer I use less than 1kWh of grid power but still get charged 7 standing charges )
the standing charge is a regressive tax on the poor and frugal.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 21, 2023 12:50:53 GMT
So what do you do with people who genuinely can't pay their energy bill?
- Cut them off after a suitable period of consultation?
- Force the energy companies to supply them for free?
- Let the government pay the bill?
- Let charaties pay the bill?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 21, 2023 12:59:03 GMT
You are aware of the current massive scandal over the enforced switching of people onto prepayment meters with suppliers & courts failing to follow the proper legal procedures. They may legally have to do certain things but there is strong evidence they are not. There should be a law against it! Working link - inews.co.uk/news/prepayment-energy-meter-warrants-ministers-magistrates-2077936That article doesn't say they aren't following the correct legal processes, though. It just says that magistrates are nodding through lists of names, without going into every single one individually. British Gas alone did nearly 25,000 last year. Is it realistic to expect the overloaded court system to go into each one in depth? I'd suggest not. Should the court system be less overloaded? Absolutely! having read the article lets say there were 300 cases on the list 1 minutes per case would take 5 hours. I do think that defendants should have to be notified which court and there should be a legal come back on suppliers getting it wrong, how many stories have we seen of suppliers fitting a prepayment meter to the wrong address or the correct address but with a different occupier. British Gas and SSE seem particularly prone to this. and in one case I saw they said they had "offered Miss A £250 credit for the inconvenience" £250 credit on an SSE account when you are not a customer is worthless. The other issue is getting a prepayment meter changed back to credit or replaced seems virtually impossible. The Courts are overloaded and some of the biggest users are TV licensing and Utility companies / local authorities and of course speeding fines. the Jails are full, but I personally know someone who did 6 weeks in jail for stealing a couple of mars bars, because he had a suspended sentence for another offence. he had no money because his benefits were reduced as a punishment for not signing on at the right time, you guessed it because he was in court. Ok he's a rogue and a bit of a bad lad but the system isn't helping him.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 21, 2023 13:08:38 GMT
So what do you do with people who genuinely can't pay their energy bill?
- Cut them off after a suitable period of consultation?
- Force the energy companies to supply them for free?
- Let the government pay the bill?
- Let charities pay the bill?
perhaps a system could be introduced for electricity and water along the lines of the Australian water system. they can't cut you off but they can restrict you. I believe the Australian water system allows then to reduce the flow to a 500cc a minute so it takes 2 minutes to fill a kettle, you can't bath or shower but you can survive. perhaps an allowance of say 3Kwh per day of electricity from general taxation ( for everyone ) then you pay for the extra, except that in order to encourage people to go green the first 7kWh is at 40p the next 10 at 50p and so on. If you don't have a smart meter it's averaged over a month of course what you can't do is something like that with gas it needs to be on or off . In some cases perhaps we need a facility for electricity and gas to be paid as a deduction from benefits.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 21, 2023 13:14:45 GMT
read it, not sure why it is a concern yep, where are the red flags I'm meant to worry about ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 21, 2023 13:18:24 GMT
read it, not sure why it is a concern I agree. I didn't find anything in the article that was concerning (with the possible exception of the pre-payment functionality, which isn't a concern for most). They're still detailing problems with the old SMETS1 meters, which wouldn't be fitted now. I find mine too be very useful and convenient. I had coffee with a couple yesterday who had been scared of having one fitted by similar disinformation. They then asked whether it would be cheaper to heat the home with gas in the daytime or to use an electric fire in one room (face palm emoji). I didn't even spot a reference to that, but maybe it didn't register because I already knew it. still a search of 'pre-payment' (and variants) didn't find anything either..
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