keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Aug 27, 2022 12:10:58 GMT
Indeed, it's not even possible with current installations. It would need to be something built into the installation, where there's a central monitoring unit that gives you a break down of usage by socket, then you can configure which appliance is plugged into each socket, or something like that. Just cut out the middleman, and have wifi-connected appliances report back to the monitoring unit directly. Save complicating the wiring. 'course, all that monitoring requires power... and WIFI connectivity,not sure that the idea of having my electric shower connected to wifi appeals and that's probably my biggest draw. Yes I agree with the concept of monitoring things, but I saw a comment on another forum where someone was complaining that getting updates every 10 seconds didn't give enough granularity to control things Again though you get people spending £'s to save pennies having numerous Raspberry PI etc around the house to control various devices, which then talk to a PC that has a display up showing what is happening around the house
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 27, 2022 12:47:15 GMT
I have some smart switches etc. I'll repeat findings from before :- TV Box 10 Watts in standby, TV 5 Watts, IHD uses 2 watts, Soundbar 5 watts, dvd player in standby 20 Watts. DVD player is now unplugged the others are now on a smart switch and only in use/standby for 7 hours a day I save 20 watts for 17 hrs and 20 for 24 hours 340 + 480 , 820 watts per day 365 days as near as makes no difference 300kWh per year @ 50pkWh that’s £150 the smart switch I used cost £10 so covers itself in under a month. Apparently Virgin Boxes are quite high usage Games consoles can use 220W per hour seriously if you have old style bulbs lets say they are 50 Watt, and you have 4 in lounge, used 5 hours a day 6 months a year 200 watts per hour, 1 kWh day, 180kWh a year £90 4 decent quality LED bulbs under £20 but using 1/10 of the electricity, total for year 1 £29 a saving of £61. Thanks for this info. I changed all our bulbs to LEDs a couple of years ago. Just an idle/pedantic thought... These standby devices, isn't most of that energy consumption lost into the house as heat energy? During the winter, presumably it all contributes to keep the house that tiny teeny bit warmer overnight? If you switch them off, presumably your heating system has to work a tiny fraction harder to make up the difference? I appreciate we are talking peanuts, but switching everything off can't equate to an exactly 100% saving. Your 820 watts daily saving by switching off is perhaps 700(?) watts of heating emitted that is now lost to your daily space heating requirement. Note, I'm not suggesting it's a good way to heat the house! I'm sure the difference in heating costs is minuscule and I did say I was being pedantic...😁 I'm reminded that our Humax TV box emits a massive amount of heat. But switching it off would be into divorce territory. She does like to record her programs every week and switching it off apparently loses all the carefully set up recording schedule, as I've learned the hard way 🤕.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 27, 2022 13:00:54 GMT
Just cut out the middleman, and have wifi-connected appliances report back to the monitoring unit directly. Save complicating the wiring. 'course, all that monitoring requires power... and WIFI connectivity,not sure that the idea of having my electric shower connected to wifi appeals and that's probably my biggest draw. Yes I agree with the concept of monitoring things, but I saw a comment on another forum where someone was complaining that getting updates every 10 seconds didn't give enough granularity to control things Again though you get people spending £'s to save pennies having numerous Raspberry PI etc around the house to control various devices, which then talk to a PC that has a display up showing what is happening around the house This was solved in datacomms networks years ago, with a protocol known as SNMP, Simple Network Management Protocol, among other methods. I programmed all the critical boxes on the large network I was managing to report their status to a central management station, so I knew at a glance what was happening. The 'Internet of Things' will be a development of this, when all your home appliances will do likewise, if you choose to.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 27, 2022 14:14:48 GMT
This was solved in datacomms networks years ago, with a protocol known as SNMP, Simple Network Management Protocol, among other methods. I programmed all the critical boxes on the large network I was managing to report their status to a central management station, so I knew at a glance what was happening. Ah, happy memories of my phone exploding with nagios notifications...
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
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Post by michaelc on Aug 27, 2022 14:24:56 GMT
and WIFI connectivity,not sure that the idea of having my electric shower connected to wifi appeals and that's probably my biggest draw. Yes I agree with the concept of monitoring things, but I saw a comment on another forum where someone was complaining that getting updates every 10 seconds didn't give enough granularity to control things Again though you get people spending £'s to save pennies having numerous Raspberry PI etc around the house to control various devices, which then talk to a PC that has a display up showing what is happening around the house This was solved in datacomms networks years ago, with a protocol known as SNMP, Simple Network Management Protocol, among other methods. I programmed all the critical boxes on the large network I was managing to report their status to a central management station, so I knew at a glance what was happening. The 'Internet of Things' will be a development of this, when all your home appliances will do likewise, if you choose to. Funnily enough SNMP was one of my first tasks when I joined the world of work. You'll remember MIBs and such things then The emanate snmp agent sends shudders down my spine..... Haven't looked but have a feeling its still being used in some areas.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 27, 2022 14:37:57 GMT
The problem we have is that people are only listening to the politician's answer to the gas crisis, 'price cap'. The rising price is a market signal that there is a coming shortage. If every effected country caps the price, what then? Well, each government will be faced with physical shortage of gas and will need to organised rolling blackouts. There is no debate about this at the moment because politicians can't face being honest. Labour is as bad as the Tories in this respect.
What the answer is honestly to describe the problem, and exhort people to economise until alternative energy supplies can come on line. The gas price is mutely trying to tell people to do this, and capping the price for consumers contradicts that response, while forcing the government (taxpayer) to fund the price difference between the price cap and the market price.
Subsidising a product that is scarce simply helps people and companies buy more of it, pushing the price higher. The future of that is a catastrophic drain on the public finances as the gap between market price and capped price widens. The UK is already at record levels of debt and against a picture of rising interest payments on that debt necessary to stop runaway inflation.
Many countries' politicians are playing this game but within the scope of cross-EU agreement, in nudging people to cut the 15% off consumption. The UK politicians need to describe the objective truth to their citizens, and describe a plan to help the worse off, while agreeing consumption limits with companies that will help them continue to operate through the winter.
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Post by mostlywrong on Aug 27, 2022 14:49:40 GMT
Has anyone yet seen an actual price for a KWh from each company for the target period or are we all still groping in the dark?
So to speak...
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I skimmed the OFGEM documents last night and they made as much sense as the rubbish published by the media.
MW
Have a look at the MSE page. They show the typical tariff for every region of GB, both before and after 1st October. Thanks. Roughly from 28p to 51p per KWh.
Ouch.
MW
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Aug 27, 2022 16:31:18 GMT
Have a look at the MSE page. They show the typical tariff for every region of GB, both before and after 1st October. Thanks. Roughly from 28p to 51p per KWh. 52p is in fact what's on the Ofgen website. The "typical household" mentioned everywhere in the media is really the Ofgem central case Typical Domestic Consumption Value (TDCV) i.e. 2,900kWh per annum for electricity and 12,000kWh per annum for gas. So we could calculate the p/kWh from the Cornwall Insight forecasts, assuming the standing charge remains at 46p/day = £167.90/year. E.g. £2,505.14 in Q1 2023 would be (2,505.14 - 167.90) / 2,900 = 81p/kWh. Period | £/annum | p/kWh | Q1 2023 | 2,505.14 | 81 | Q2 2023 | 2,834.19 | 92 | Q3 2023 | 2,445.11 | 79 | Q4 2023 | 2,464.99 | 79 |
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 27, 2022 16:50:29 GMT
The problem we have is that people are only listening to the politician's answer to the gas crisis, 'price cap'. The rising price is a market signal that there is a coming shortage. If every effected country caps the price, what then? Well, each government will be faced with physical shortage of gas and will need to organised rolling blackouts. There is no debate about this at the moment because politicians can't face being honest. Labour is as bad as the Tories in this respect. What the answer is honestly to describe the problem, and exhort people to economise until alternative energy supplies can come on line. The gas price is mutely trying to tell people to do this, and capping the price for consumers contradicts that response, while forcing the government (taxpayer) to fund the price difference between the price cap and the market price. Subsidising a product that is scarce simply helps people and companies buy more of it, pushing the price higher. The future of that is a catastrophic drain on the public finances as the gap between market price and capped price widens. The UK is already at record levels of debt and against a picture of rising interest payments on that debt necessary to stop runaway inflation. Many countries' politicians are playing this game but within the scope of cross-EU agreement, in nudging people to cut the 15% off consumption. The UK politicians need to describe the objective truth to their citizens, and describe a plan to help the worse off, while agreeing consumption limits with companies that will help them continue to operate through the winter. Agree completely...and I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't experience some (hopefully fairly organised) blackouts this winter. There's an understandable media focus on household finance impact but I would like to see more on the flip side of the same coin i.e. how to reduce consumption and early, non-panic preparation guidance. In the coming days I'll be checking the home situation with respect to power banks, battery operated lamps and might get a few extra gas canisters for a camping burner or the BBQ. Insulation too although I have no idea what I'm doing there. Sounds ridiculous but I still remember sitting around candles in the kitchen when I was very young (70s) so it's hardly outside the bounds of imagination.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 27, 2022 20:10:57 GMT
The problem we have is that people are only listening to the politician's answer to the gas crisis, 'price cap'. The rising price is a market signal that there is a coming shortage. If every effected country caps the price, what then? Well, each government will be faced with physical shortage of gas and will need to organised rolling blackouts. There is no debate about this at the moment because politicians can't face being honest. Labour is as bad as the Tories in this respect. What the answer is honestly to describe the problem, and exhort people to economise until alternative energy supplies can come on line. The gas price is mutely trying to tell people to do this, and capping the price for consumers contradicts that response, while forcing the government (taxpayer) to fund the price difference between the price cap and the market price. Subsidising a product that is scarce simply helps people and companies buy more of it, pushing the price higher. The future of that is a catastrophic drain on the public finances as the gap between market price and capped price widens. The UK is already at record levels of debt and against a picture of rising interest payments on that debt necessary to stop runaway inflation. Many countries' politicians are playing this game but within the scope of cross-EU agreement, in nudging people to cut the 15% off consumption. The UK politicians need to describe the objective truth to their citizens, and describe a plan to help the worse off, while agreeing consumption limits with companies that will help them continue to operate through the winter. Agree completely...and I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't experience some (hopefully fairly organised) blackouts this winter. There's an understandable media focus on household finance impact but I would like to see more on the flip side of the same coin i.e. how to reduce consumption and early, non-panic preparation guidance. In the coming days I'll be checking the home situation with respect to power banks, battery operated lamps and might get a few extra gas canisters for a camping burner or the BBQ. Insulation too although I have no idea what I'm doing there. Sounds ridiculous but I still remember sitting around candles in the kitchen when I was very young (70s) so it's hardly outside the bounds of imagination. Still got the oil lamps I got then, safer than candles and better light.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 27, 2022 20:54:22 GMT
The problem we have is that people are only listening to the politician's answer to the gas crisis, 'price cap'. The rising price is a market signal that there is a coming shortage. If every effected country caps the price, what then? Well, each government will be faced with physical shortage of gas and will need to organised rolling blackouts. There is no debate about this at the moment because politicians can't face being honest. Labour is as bad as the Tories in this respect. What the answer is honestly to describe the problem, and exhort people to economise until alternative energy supplies can come on line. The gas price is mutely trying to tell people to do this, and capping the price for consumers contradicts that response, while forcing the government (taxpayer) to fund the price difference between the price cap and the market price. Subsidising a product that is scarce simply helps people and companies buy more of it, pushing the price higher. The future of that is a catastrophic drain on the public finances as the gap between market price and capped price widens. The UK is already at record levels of debt and against a picture of rising interest payments on that debt necessary to stop runaway inflation. Many countries' politicians are playing this game but within the scope of cross-EU agreement, in nudging people to cut the 15% off consumption. The UK politicians need to describe the objective truth to their citizens, and describe a plan to help the worse off, while agreeing consumption limits with companies that will help them continue to operate through the winter. Agree completely...and I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't experience some (hopefully fairly organised) blackouts this winter. There's an understandable media focus on household finance impact but I would like to see more on the flip side of the same coin i.e. how to reduce consumption and early, non-panic preparation guidance. In the coming days I'll be checking the home situation with respect to power banks, battery operated lamps and might get a few extra gas canisters for a camping burner or the BBQ. Insulation too although I have no idea what I'm doing there. Sounds ridiculous but I still remember sitting around candles in the kitchen when I was very young (70s) so it's hardly outside the bounds of imagination. As the old joke goes... If it gets cold we'll all huddle around a candle. And if it gets REALLY cold, we'll light it.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 27, 2022 21:37:57 GMT
This was solved in datacomms networks years ago, with a protocol known as SNMP, Simple Network Management Protocol, among other methods. I programmed all the critical boxes on the large network I was managing to report their status to a central management station, so I knew at a glance what was happening. The 'Internet of Things' will be a development of this, when all your home appliances will do likewise, if you choose to. Funnily enough SNMP was one of my first tasks when I joined the world of work. You'll remember MIBs and such things then The emanate snmp agent sends shudders down my spine..... Haven't looked but have a feeling its still being used in some areas. MIBs, MIBwalkers, leaves and nodes... the stuff of nightmares. We're going well off topic here, but my favourite protocol I ever installed was NTP, the Network Time Protocol. How do you keep every appliance reading the same time as every other? Internal clocks will drift if left alone, so, within a few days, appliances will start to read quite differently from each other. For logging/auditing purposes, that's not good. Keeping clocks in sync is very much a non-trivial problem to overcome, because if box A (whose time you trust as completely accurate) sends to box B, "Hey, here's the current time of day, please update yourself to it", there is a latency in the network between the boxes, meaning that by the time box B receives this info, a few milliseconds will have already elapsed. So box B will install a slightly inaccurate time. Then box B sends this on to box C... and the problem proliferates. Well, some genius/es solved this by way of the NTP protocol, and it works brilliantly. Using some highly complex algorithms, they were able to half-calculate/half-estimate the latency between boxes and overcome a problem that most of us didn't even know ever existed! There are entire books written about the fascinating NTP protocol, for anyone having trouble getting off to sleep at night!
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travolta
Member of DD Central
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Post by travolta on Aug 27, 2022 21:38:51 GMT
Nightlight in an earthenware flower pot.....
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Aug 27, 2022 22:01:46 GMT
sitting infront of the old coal fire with candles for light. i thought it was power cuts.what has this country become? clowns to the left of me jokers to right here i am stuck in the middle with you.good night.
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Aug 28, 2022 9:20:20 GMT
Wanna be scared,Look at Octopus Agile outgoing prices ( Which are basically wholesale ie what your supplier pays )
We are in August so still good solar production period, that price doesn't drop below 35PkWh from 17:00 to 21:30 it's above 50p and this is the wholesale price.
A big part of the problem is Bulb which went bust like many others because it didn't hedge prices so was just buying on the spot market. the administrators have not been allowed to hedge prices so the spot market knows that one big supplier will be bidding every day this is a primary cause of the high prices. I'm sure that it would drop very significantly if the Government had the sense to accept the offer from Octopus to take bulb over.
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