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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 18:16:04 GMT
Estate in question exceeded 35k. So (in Scotland) I cant get any more info other than my brothers executor was his wife and I cant get any more info on other potential beneficiaries? Sorry to steal the thread. I am not familiar with the Scottish system other than it is different to that of England & Wales.
I do know that I cannot view any Scottish will post-1925 without visiting Edinburgh. I don't even think they offer documents by post.
Back to basics. The executor applies for probate (Scot: grant of confirmation?) in order to take control of the assets, settle any debts, distribute the assets in accordance with the directions in the valid will and account for any due taxes to HMRC.
Broadly speaking, as long as one is married or in a civil partnership, most assets will be in joint names.
Each stiff gets a £325,000 allowance before inheritance tax kicks in and married stiffs get a further £175,000 if the couple own a house and bequeath the property to children/grandchildren. Total = £500,000.
I suggest that, given the presence of a valid will (or even no will...), all the assets in joint names, and a pretty average estate, then there might not be any pressing need to apply for probate.
And my understanding is that, given the presence of a will or not, the spouse gets first dibs with the children second.
I could easily imagine a case (and I have experience in one case) where the executor does not apply for probate.
My experience was that, on the second death, the executor (me...) picked up the pieces. Luckily, it was not a large or complex estate.
MW
Edited to add information that I had missed.
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 14, 2022 18:55:15 GMT
Estate in question exceeded 35k. So (in Scotland) I cant get any more info other than my brothers executor was his wife and I cant get any more info on other potential beneficiaries? Sorry to steal the thread. I am not familiar with the Scottish system other than it is different to that of England & Wales.
I do know that I cannot view any Scottish will post-1925 without visiting Edinburgh. I don't even think they offer documents by post.
Back to basics. The executor applies for probate (Scot: grant of confirmation?) in order to take control of the assets, settle any debts, distribute the assets in accordance with the directions in the valid will and account for any due taxes to HMRC.
Broadly speaking, as long as one is married or in a civil partnership, most assets will be in joint names.
Each stiff gets a £325,000 allowance before inheritance tax kicks in and married stiffs get a further £175,000. Total = £500,000.
I suggest that, given the presence of a valid will (or even no will...), all the assets in joint names, and a pretty average estate, then there might not be any pressing need to apply for probate.
And my understanding is that, given the presence of a will or not, the spouse gets first dibs with the children second.
I could easily imagine a case (and I have experience in one case) where the executor does not apply for probate.
My experience was that, on the second death, the executor (me...) picked up the pieces. Luckily, it was not a large or complex estate.
MW
LOL, even in Scotland I suspect the more conventional term when dealing with solicitors/executors and especially relatives might be "the deceased"
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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 19:33:05 GMT
You could argue that I am wrong to use the expression "stiffs" as rigor mortis will no longer apply.
And I will point out that you knew what I was talking about!
And "they" are not about to complain...
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 19:58:14 GMT
Returning to the OP, I think it is important to:
- Have a valid will in place and stored in an obvious place.
- Understand that the will guides your executor(s). Unless you are very clear with your wishes, your executor(s) will have to do their best interpreting your wishes and the outcome may not be what you intended.
- Understand that your death might not occur in accordance with your wishes. If you are older and plan to go first, what happens when your partner beats you to it? Or, if you leave all your money to the Cats Anonymous Charity, what happens if that particular charity expires just before you do???
- Understand that solicitors and will-writers do not necessarily have your best interests close to their heart; they are businesses and this might be the first and only time they will see you! They will try and make a fast buck out of your estate, even though that might be in 10-20 years time! IMHO, long-standing family solicitors are less likely to behave in such a manner but that is a different world in which tax-efficient estates are important.
- Understand that your will is a public document once probate has been granted. If you want to cut Third Daughter out of your will, the world will know that you did so...
Of course, all of this agony can be avoided by making a simple will leaving everything to me, MostlyWrong, at this address. Please don't forget the signatures of the two witnesses and, if you let me know, I can arrange for them to attend immediately...
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 20:10:09 GMT
I realise that I am hogging the limelight...
If someone asks you to be an executor, it is worthwhile considering some of the tasks that lie ahead.
Google "IHT 400" and visit the gov.uk website. That is just one part of the application for probate!
If the estate is likely to include property or a trust, then you probably need to engage a solicitor.
MW
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Post by overthehill on Dec 14, 2022 21:04:22 GMT
Estate in question exceeded 35k. So (in Scotland) I cant get any more info other than my brothers executor was his wife and I cant get any more info on other potential beneficiaries? Sorry to steal the thread. I am not familiar with the Scottish system other than it is different to that of England & Wales.
I do know that I cannot view any Scottish will post-1925 without visiting Edinburgh. I don't even think they offer documents by post.
Back to basics. The executor applies for probate (Scot: grant of confirmation?) in order to take control of the assets, settle any debts, distribute the assets in accordance with the directions in the valid will and account for any due taxes to HMRC.
Broadly speaking, as long as one is married or in a civil partnership, most assets will be in joint names.
Each stiff gets a £325,000 allowance before inheritance tax kicks in and married stiffs get a further £175,000. Total = £500,000.
I suggest that, given the presence of a valid will (or even no will...), all the assets in joint names, and a pretty average estate, then there might not be any pressing need to apply for probate.
And my understanding is that, given the presence of a will or not, the spouse gets first dibs with the children second.
I could easily imagine a case (and I have experience in one case) where the executor does not apply for probate.
My experience was that, on the second death, the executor (me...) picked up the pieces. Luckily, it was not a large or complex estate.
MW
The additional 175k allowance is when the estate includes a property. Spouses can use unused allowances of their other deceased half so the total inheritance allowance could be 1 million. (325+175) * 2.
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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 21:43:50 GMT
Missed that...
Thanks for pointing it out.
The Residential Nil Rate Band (RNRB) was introduced, IIRC, by the Cameron/Clegg government in 2015 after it was pointed out that the IHT nil-rate band (NRB) (£325k) had not been adjusted for years (since 2009 actually) and it became an election issue.
The RNRB annoys me because couples without children, for whatever reason including death, cannot benefit from what was a shameless electoral bung.
Note that both bands are frozen until 2026.
With inflation at >10% pa for a while, watch the taxman's haul increase at a huge rate!
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Dec 14, 2022 21:52:37 GMT
And I was probably right about Scottish wills. Herewith the evidence:
I am working through my Scottish ancestry and I have to visit Edinburgh to establish that a Scottish will exists!
Luckily, all my Scottish ancestors appear to have been poorer than church mice.
Or cleverer than the Revenue...
MW
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 14, 2022 21:57:48 GMT
I am not familiar with the Scottish system other than it is different to that of England & Wales.
I do know that I cannot view any Scottish will post-1925 without visiting Edinburgh. I don't even think they offer documents by post.
Back to basics. The executor applies for probate (Scot: grant of confirmation?) in order to take control of the assets, settle any debts, distribute the assets in accordance with the directions in the valid will and account for any due taxes to HMRC.
Broadly speaking, as long as one is married or in a civil partnership, most assets will be in joint names.
Each stiff gets a £325,000 allowance before inheritance tax kicks in and married stiffs get a further £175,000. Total = £500,000.
I suggest that, given the presence of a valid will (or even no will...), all the assets in joint names, and a pretty average estate, then there might not be any pressing need to apply for probate.
And my understanding is that, given the presence of a will or not, the spouse gets first dibs with the children second.
I could easily imagine a case (and I have experience in one case) where the executor does not apply for probate.
My experience was that, on the second death, the executor (me...) picked up the pieces. Luckily, it was not a large or complex estate.
MW
The additional 175k allowance is when the estate includes a property. Spouses can use unused allowances of their other deceased half so the total inheritance allowance could be 1 million. (325+175) * 2.
RNRB: Residence Nil Rate Band
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Post by overthehill on Dec 14, 2022 22:40:32 GMT
Missed that...
Thanks for pointing it out.
The Residential Nil Rate Band (RNRB) was introduced, IIRC, by the Cameron/Clegg government in 2015 after it was pointed out that the IHT nil-rate band (NRB) (£325k) had not been adjusted for years (since 2009 actually) and it became an election issue.
The RNRB annoys me because couples without children, for whatever reason including death, cannot benefit from what was a shameless electoral bung.
Note that both bands are frozen until 2026.
With inflation at >10% pa for a while, watch the taxman's haul increase at a huge rate!
MW
The whole point of Inheritance Tax is to redistribute wealth to the poor by taxing the wealthy when they die. Could be worse, all the allowances might only apply to children inheritance!
RNRB was introduced so the most likely people living in the main residence of the deceased, i.e. children didn't have to sell it and move to a cheaper house because they couldn't afford the tax bill if the estate was just a property. 500k house would mean 70k tax bill (40% of 175k)
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rocky1
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 1,940
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Post by rocky1 on Dec 15, 2022 7:13:17 GMT
looking at some p2p platforms death of investor T&Cs it is also going to be a costly and very drawn out process for family to understand and deal with.it seems that even in death there are still plenty of ways to legally take further chunks of your hard earnt.it is said nothing is easy in life.well it looks like it is not that easy in death either.
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Post by overthehill on Dec 15, 2022 9:30:04 GMT
looking at some p2p platforms death of investor T&Cs it is also going to be a costly and very drawn out process for family to understand and deal with.it seems that even in death there are still plenty of ways to legally take further chunks of your hard earnt.it is said nothing is easy in life.well it looks like it is not that easy in death either.
I was thinking about this last night. What happens with assets such as loans that can't be sold or recovered immediately ? Does the probate continue for years or can illiquid assets be transferred to a beneficiary allowing probate to be finalised? I'm guessing the latter.
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Post by Ace on Dec 15, 2022 9:35:48 GMT
looking at some p2p platforms death of investor T&Cs it is also going to be a costly and very drawn out process for family to understand and deal with.it seems that even in death there are still plenty of ways to legally take further chunks of your hard earnt.it is said nothing is easy in life.well it looks like it is not that easy in death either.
I was thinking about this last night. What happens with assets such as loans that can't be sold or recovered immediately ? Does the probate continue for years or can illiquid assets be transferred to a beneficiary allowing probate to be finalised? I'm guessing the latter.
The answer is: a bit of both. There's a thread about it here p2pindependentforum.com/post/287983/threadEdit: with links to other threads.
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
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Post by keitha on Dec 15, 2022 11:27:06 GMT
I know of a case where some funds were in FC when the "owner" unexpectedly died.
this was September 2020, the Executor had access to the account, stopped deposits, and started the process of getting out.
When FC changed to dribs and drabs withdrawals he spoke to the other beneficiaries and agreed to pay them what was available and the rest of the estate. Recently the residue in FC dropped below £20,000, with a further £30,000 in bad debts he has offered to pay the other 2 £9,000 each. I has accepted the other wants £16,000.
My Maths says he has £20,000 in there possibly another £2,000 could go bad. leaving £18,000 to be divided between the 3. there is then £30,000 of bad debt plus the £2,000 from live loans so £32,000, not knowing the investment profile I think 35% recoveries maybe so call it £11,000.
AARGH as I typed this I wondered if the £30,000 was outstanding or the total, so I phoned him, it's the default figure he assumed it reduced every time a recovery payment was made. he's now panicking thinking he has made an offer that is too generous.
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mogish
Member of DD Central
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Post by mogish on Dec 15, 2022 12:47:59 GMT
So basically the wife gets first dibs.
I'm interested to see if a will must be made public. My brother had substantial wealth, unfortunately near the end of his life, his wife became very nasty and would not let any family see him
I'm interested to see if he left his nephew's anything .
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.
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