keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 7, 2023 21:18:32 GMT
not far from me then if it's RCT
I visit most of the towns there looking for bits to sell on a regular basis
not many towns, you have the hole with the mint, Ponty, Aberdare and Treorchy most of the others are hardly well known.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 7, 2023 21:23:34 GMT
I did. First you're "angry" about state pension being taxed the same as other income, then you have "no problem" with it. I'm confused. No I'm angry that people think that the state pension is too high, or that youngsters can't afford to pay for existing pensions like we did.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 7, 2023 21:28:26 GMT
(RCT ...the best of your three suggestions) The problem for youngsters is that us old folk are living too long and we squander it all on care before they can benefit.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 7, 2023 21:38:01 GMT
I wasn't a high flyer I took over £100,000 as a lump sum and a pension of £20,000 a year, so if I live to 80 I will draw my pension for 20+ years so I will draw £500,000 so I would guess my share of the overall pot is about £400,000 Add in an average house @ £300,000 and a few shares etc the £1 Million that makes you rich isn't actually that hard to hit.Sorry, but this is cloud cuckoo land for the average Civil Servant. From a 2021 National Audit Office report: "There is also considerable variation across the schemes in average pensions with, for example, teachers’ scheme members receiving £12,300 on average annually compared with £8,100 received by civil service scheme members". £8,100 requires a pension pot (which is a notional concept for much of the public sector) of less than £200k. Even adding their (share of a) house and savings is likely to fall well short of £1m.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 7, 2023 21:51:46 GMT
not far from me then if it's RCT I visit most of the towns there looking for bits to sell on a regular basis not many towns, you have the hole with the mint, Ponty, Aberdare and Treorchy most of the others are hardly well known. Very droll, I heard Llantrisant described as "the hole with the mint" the other day for the first time... from the guide showing us around the Mint. She was smashing and the visit (our third, with different guests each time) is very interesting and well worthwhile. Good pub quiz question: The Royal Mint, she told us, is the only UK organisation to operate a wind turbine painted other than the bland cream colour. And there it was, painted light green, like a giant leek poking out of the ground. (She insisted it was a daffodil though ).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 8, 2023 11:05:13 GMT
I did. First you're "angry" about state pension being taxed the same as other income, then you have "no problem" with it. I'm confused. No I'm angry that people think that the state pension is too high, or that youngsters can't afford to pay for existing pensions like we did. Oh. Right. So the tax thing is totally irrelevant? Ultimately, we have to accept that the state pension is paid FAR wider than it used to be. There's a much larger proportion of the population above retirement age than there used to be, and people live for far more time past the line than they used to. People don't seem to like dying younger. People don't seem to like retiring older. People don't even seem to like gender equality.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 8, 2023 13:09:00 GMT
I wasn't a high flyer I took over £100,000 as a lump sum and a pension of £20,000 a year, so if I live to 80 I will draw my pension for 20+ years so I will draw £500,000 so I would guess my share of the overall pot is about £400,000 Add in an average house @ £300,000 and a few shares etc the £1 Million that makes you rich isn't actually that hard to hit.Sorry, but this is cloud cuckoo land for the average Civil Servant. From a 2021 National Audit Office report: "There is also considerable variation across the schemes in average pensions with, for example, teachers’ scheme members receiving £12,300 on average annually compared with £8,100 received by civil service scheme members". £8,100 requires a pension pot (which is a notional concept for much of the public sector) of less than £200k. Even adding their (share of a) house and savings is likely to fall well short of £1m. Presumably, the average of £8,100 includes pensions for those that retired 20 years ago and includes part time workers, common in teaching and the NHS?
It might be more relevant to know the average for full time workers with a lifetime of civil service employment retiring now.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 8, 2023 13:38:22 GMT
Sorry, but this is cloud cuckoo land for the average Civil Servant. From a 2021 National Audit Office report: "There is also considerable variation across the schemes in average pensions with, for example, teachers’ scheme members receiving £12,300 on average annually compared with £8,100 received by civil service scheme members". £8,100 requires a pension pot (which is a notional concept for much of the public sector) of less than £200k. Even adding their (share of a) house and savings is likely to fall well short of £1m. Presumably, the average of £8,100 includes pensions for those that retired 20 years ago and includes part time workers, common in teaching and the NHS?
It might be more relevant to know the average for full time workers with a lifetime of civil service employment retiring now.
well quite. Your "average" civil servant or "average" anything is not much of a measure if it includes those that were only in that role for a limited period rather than the entirety of their career. The same paragraph from which the average of £8,100 is lifted essentially makes that point: However, differences in pension payments between
individuals and between groups of members arise because of a range of factors
including the characteristics of different schemes, length of service and salary.
For example, our analysis of the latest available data from 2016 shows that on average
male scheme members receive £14,100 annually, whereas female scheme members
receive £7,750 – a 45% differenceTo which I'm tempted to respond: "no s*** Sherlock".
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 8, 2023 17:06:49 GMT
I did. First you're "angry" about state pension being taxed the same as other income, then you have "no problem" with it. I'm confused. No I'm angry that people think that the state pension is too high, or that youngsters can't afford to pay for existing pensions like we did.They can't. There are far fewer working age people per pensioner than there used to be, so it costs them a lot more. See the below graph of State Pension spending as a % of GDP (source: www.economicshelp.org/blog/27451/economics/uk-pension-spending-of-gdp/)This is only going to get worse as the population ages - one reason why we need more immigration, not less. According to the source referenced above, forecasts from the ONS suggest that – even with increased retirement ages – pension spending will rise to 9.4% of GDP by 2062/63. And that's just pensions. Add to that the growing healthcare needs of the ageing population and you can see the size of the problem.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 8, 2023 18:48:34 GMT
I reckon we should limit the healthcare of retirees. Sounds harsh , but could be a trade off. Won't be popular but might urge older people to take responsibility for their longevity. My bro in law and sister have been sucking the NHS dry for YEARS. (Yes ,I do love them,but really...?)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 8, 2023 19:07:01 GMT
I reckon we should limit the healthcare of retirees. Sounds harsh , but could be a trade off. Won't be popular but might urge older people to take responsibility for their longevity. My bro in law and sister have been sucking the NHS dry for YEARS. (Yes ,I do love them,but really...?) How about making younger people take responsibility for their lifestyle?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 8, 2023 21:51:52 GMT
Have you ever tried making anyone do ANYTHING, without financial incentive ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 8, 2023 22:07:27 GMT
I reckon we should limit the healthcare of retirees.Sounds harsh , but could be a trade off. Won't be popular but might urge older people to take responsibility for their longevity. My bro in law and sister have been sucking the NHS dry for YEARS. (Yes ,I do love them,but really...?) So you get £10,000 (or whatever) worth of care after you reach retirement age and then you have to pay? Make it the maximum you paid in during your lifetime maybe and then you have to pay? Why limit that to retirees, children with lifelong problems should surely be cut off at some point as well? And everyone else who develops long term illness or has a horrendous (expensive) accident causing long term disability. Maybe just a lifetime allocation of NHS treatment £100,000 a lifetime? And then you're on your own.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 8, 2023 23:03:25 GMT
Sorry, but this is cloud cuckoo land for the average Civil Servant. From a 2021 National Audit Office report: "There is also considerable variation across the schemes in average pensions with, for example, teachers’ scheme members receiving £12,300 on average annually compared with £8,100 received by civil service scheme members". £8,100 requires a pension pot (which is a notional concept for much of the public sector) of less than £200k. Even adding their (share of a) house and savings is likely to fall well short of £1m. Presumably, the average of £8,100 includes pensions for those that retired 20 years ago and includes part time workers, common in teaching and the NHS? It might be more relevant to know the average for full time workers with a lifetime of civil service employment retiring now.
I was Local Government with 36 years service, and not senior management levels, several colleagues went about the same time and most on more than me. one issue at the time and no it wasn't me or them, was that some local Authorities would promote staff in the last 2 years of service, this means that those people draw a bigger pension than they would otherwise, I do know that the same used to happen in the NHS. One colleague who retired in 2010 was drawing a pension that gave him close to what he would have made after paying NI and pension contributions as working staff received no rises for many years but retired staff were getting inflation inflation linked increases
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 9, 2023 12:15:15 GMT
Presumably, the average of £8,100 includes pensions for those that retired 20 years ago and includes part time workers, common in teaching and the NHS? It might be more relevant to know the average for full time workers with a lifetime of civil service employment retiring now.
I was Local Government with 36 years service, and not senior management levels, several colleagues went about the same time and most on more than me. one issue at the time and no it wasn't me or them, was that some local Authorities would promote staff in the last 2 years of service, this means that those people draw a bigger pension than they would otherwise, I do know that the same used to happen in the NHS. One colleague who retired in 2010 was drawing a pension that gave him close to what he would have made after paying NI and pension contributions as working staff received no rises for many years but retired staff were getting inflation inflation linked increasesThat was the main reason I resigned two years early. After building up 40 years of pension, this lengthy series of no pay increases was eroding my final salary pension terribly, year after year. After resignation, at least it would retain its value by increasing with inflation from that point. In the end, it wasn't the miserable pay policy itself, but its effect on my pension, that forced my hand to jack it in.
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