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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 11:45:49 GMT
I think chuck them on the platform; the more the merrier! They won't be everyone's cup of tea but for some people it would be a welcome addition; particularly if people deposit money and have a choice of a few property loans right from the off (I know it was your intention to always have loans available immediately for new depositors). I would say it's up to you to decide how many properties you can afford to have up there potentially unfilled and whether this will impact deal flow for other items or not. Things I would like to see on all property loans: 1) Guarantee of interest continuing to be paid until principal paid back in full. 2) The borrower's likely exit strategy (with a back up strategy if possible) 3) A sensible/honest LTV (as bugs4me above did I also picked up that the 6 month sale value for MT30 was £150,000; meaning an LTV of 66% - perhaps it would be more appropriate to list this figure?) 4) Proper security over the property (First charge etc) I think if these were all met I would consider investing in most property loans (funds permitting!) and the more information available to potential investors to make a decision the better. Thank you coop - most useful.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 5, 2015 11:51:31 GMT
Where do lenders stand in the event of a property default? As you MoneyThing are the originator rather than a partner would lenders still be paid back capital & outstanding interest at term come what may as with the gold etc? As you point out, MoneyThing is the originator for these loans and as such in the event of default, it may take a little while to dispose and recover the monies (during which time interest will still be accruing). Thank. So in terms of property the Moneything proposition is much the same as that offered by SS & FS. For me, then,it will very much come down to the individual proposition, nature of the property, LTV, borrowers exit route and potential of default. Experience elsewhere has suggested that 6 month PBLs rarely go to plan so the big question for lenders, always asked when platforms start done this route, is how will Moneything manage delays & defaults. What experience has the team in this area? The key deferentiator of MT over other platforms is that the gold etc loans are effectively guarenteed in their repayment but that isnt true in the case of the property which levels the playing field. It is here that I think the absence of a Secondary Market is negative factor. It is noticeable that on FS there is a much less appetite for the property loans primarily for the reasons outlined above IMO. That said I personally would invest in property with MT if the prosition was right (like others, I dislike the current loans security, unclear valuation & uncertain exit) & there are others investing in other platforms looking for other opportunitires elsewhere due to lack of deal flow.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 5, 2015 11:52:04 GMT
I don't see that as a problem provided the LTV is right. Perhaps I could give an outline of these types of loans on this forum on an ad-hoc basis to see if there might be appetite. Wouldn't do any harm Ed - go for it
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 11:57:40 GMT
As you point out, MoneyThing is the originator for these loans and as such in the event of default, it may take a little while to dispose and recover the monies (during which time interest will still be accruing). Thank. So in terms of property the Moneything proposition is much the same as that offered by Sexy Sandwiches & Fantastic Submarines. For me, then,it will very much come down to the individual proposition, nature of the property, LTV, borrowers exit route and potential of default. Experience elsewhere has suggested that 6 month PBLs rarely go to plan so the big question for lenders, always asked when platforms start done this route, is how will Moneything manage delays & defaults. What experience has the team in this area? The key deferentiator of MT over other platforms is that the gold etc loans are effectively guarenteed in their repayment but that isnt true in the case of the property which levels the playing field. It is here that I think the absence of a Secondary Market is negative factor. It is noticeable that on Frustrated Swifts there is a much less appetite for the property loans primarily for the reasons outlined above IMO. That said I personally would invest in property with MT if the prosition was right (like others, I dislike the current loans security, unclear valuation & uncertain exit) & there are others investing in other platforms looking for other opportunitires elsewhere due to lack of deal flow. Thank you il moro. In which case, perhaps I could provide the outline of these opportunities (as they come about) on this forum to get a feel for potential appetite. Regards, Ed.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 12:03:55 GMT
Just to add, I am also very conscious that we are still a very young (and unproven) platform and therefore will be very careful to walk before we can run. I will therefore be careful not to offer property too soon in any big way but might just test the water via the forum first. Thanks again. Ed.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Mar 5, 2015 12:04:04 GMT
Ed; completely agree with previous posts. It will really boil down to specific quality and definitely a secondary market will help all round. I have dipped a small toe in your current prop loan,but more to gauge how you dealt with it rather than I thought it was massively attractive. Overall, I'd say give it a go, but don't lose sight of your original model which,after all,brought us all here in the first place.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 5, 2015 12:07:12 GMT
Thank. So in terms of property the Moneything proposition is much the same as that offered by Sexy Sandwiches & Fantastic Submarines. For me, then,it will very much come down to the individual proposition, nature of the property, LTV, borrowers exit route and potential of default. Experience elsewhere has suggested that 6 month PBLs rarely go to plan so the big question for lenders, always asked when platforms start done this route, is how will Moneything manage delays & defaults. What experience has the team in this area? The key deferentiator of MT over other platforms is that the gold etc loans are effectively guarenteed in their repayment but that isnt true in the case of the property which levels the playing field. It is here that I think the absence of a Secondary Market is negative factor. It is noticeable that on Frustrated Swifts there is a much less appetite for the property loans primarily for the reasons outlined above IMO. That said I personally would invest in property with MT if the prosition was right (like others, I dislike the current loans security, unclear valuation & uncertain exit) & there are others investing in other platforms looking for other opportunitires elsewhere due to lack of deal flow. Thank you il moro. In which case, perhaps I could provide the outline of these opportunities (as they come about) on this forum to get a feel for potential appetite. Regards, Ed. Definately. Always enlightening watching these forums do duedil on loan propositions.
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rogerbu
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Post by rogerbu on Mar 5, 2015 12:55:07 GMT
Ed - Congratulations on what you have achieved. You must be very busy. Do keep having a life.
For myself, I am here because I want an alternative to property. I feel I have enough of that already.
That said I will evaluate any property loans you put up and invest if I like them.
I worry about short term high value loans - how does the borrower intend to raise the funds to clear the debt?
To be comfortable I need to understand All about the security 1st charge only trusted - I ignore personal guarentees and 2nd charges I won't touch domestic occupied properties - may be impossible to evict sitting tenants or owner if children involved. What is the loan for What is the exit plan What is the plan if the borrower defaults Will interest continue to accrue Who is going to chase and eventually sell the property What will be the planned return schedule. Capital and Interest
Overall - Full information. ie Transparency, rather than feeling I am having information kept from me
I hope that you continue to expand your non property loans and maintain your differential to SS & RS
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coop
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Post by coop on Mar 5, 2015 13:03:00 GMT
I won't touch domestic occupied properties - may be impossible to evict sitting tenants or owner if children involved. I would agree 100% with this. I'm not a complete heartless bar steward - I couldn't give a monkey's if Joe Bloggs doesn't get his gold chain back cos he overstretched himself; but I certainly wouldn't want any part in foreclosing on inhabited properties.
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Post by mogzi on Mar 5, 2015 13:24:14 GMT
ed Who holds the charge over your property offerings? Capital Mortgages Direct, your security trustee company or another entity?
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 13:28:15 GMT
ed Who holds the charge over your property offerings? Capital Mortgages Direct, your security trustee company or another entity? Afternoon mogzi. The 1st charge is held with Capital Mortgages Direct Ltd. (Note that MoneyThing is simply a trading name of Capital Mortgages Direct Ltd). The transaction was undertaken through the solicitors. Regards, Ed.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 13:40:31 GMT
I think chuck them on the platform; the more the merrier! They won't be everyone's cup of tea but for some people it would be a welcome addition; particularly if people deposit money and have a choice of a few property loans right from the off (I know it was your intention to always have loans available immediately for new depositors). I would say it's up to you to decide how many properties you can afford to have up there potentially unfilled and whether this will impact deal flow for other items or not. Things I would like to see on all property loans: 1) Guarantee of interest continuing to be paid until principal paid back in full. 2) The borrower's likely exit strategy (with a back up strategy if possible) 3) A sensible/honest LTV (as bugs4me above did I also picked up that the 6 month sale value for MT30 was £150,000; meaning an LTV of 66% - perhaps it would be more appropriate to list this figure?) 4) Proper security over the property (First charge etc) I think if these were all met I would consider investing in most property loans (funds permitting!) and the more information available to potential investors to make a decision the better. Just going back on yours & bugs4me's comment on MT30. I acknowledge that it would have been more appropriate to use the £150,000 valuation rather than the £185,000 on this occasion. I do fully anticipate that the borrower will repay this loan. However, in the event that they were unable to do so then I would be looking for a quick disposal and therefore the £150,000 figure might be more realistic. I am however quite happy to be left with the majority of this loan should it not be taken up by investors on the platform. Regards, Ed.
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Post by duncandive on Mar 5, 2015 13:41:49 GMT
Ed, if you want to put more PBL's onto MT, that is fine with me. The only reason that I have not taken a slice of MT30 is that when reading the 'Valuation Report' I seem to remember there was a mention about a possible flaw with part of the roof structure. This is what put me off this particular loan. I will take another look and see if I can find the section. Of course I could also have missread the details and came to the wrong conclusion.. So far my only experience with PBL's is on SS. I quite like their structure, so something along those sort of lines I can imagine would imagine could prove efective on MT too. I'm sure that you will know far better than I what will work best on your platform, so I will look forward to making further investments with you.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 5, 2015 13:56:13 GMT
Hi Ed. Thanks for the respones so far & for your continued & extensive engagement with those us that dwell here. Couple of additional points spring to mind.
Could you clarify with the property deals if we are lending to the platform itself rather than to the borrower direct? Would these loans be added to the platform after they have drawndown? If not, would MT pay the interest in the event the loan didnt go ahead? Will loans have a minimum charging period?
These are all questions that have reoccurred on similiar platforms, so good to get your thoughts at an early stage.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 5, 2015 14:21:38 GMT
Hi Ed. Thanks for the respones so far & for your continued & extensive engagement with those us that dwell here. Couple of additional points spring to mind. Could you clarify with the property deals if we are lending to the platform itself rather than to the borrower direct? Would these loans be added to the platform after they have drawndown? If not, would MT pay the interest in the event the loan didnt go ahead? Will loans have a minimum charging period? These are all questions that have reoccurred on similiar platforms, so good to get your thoughts at an early stage. Afternoon il moro. Unless anything changes, I plan to operate the property in the same way as the other loans on the platform whereby MoneyThing will fund the loan first so that when the investor commits their funds, the loan is already live and interest generating.
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