baldpate
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Post by baldpate on Apr 13, 2015 11:32:14 GMT
Hi parag, regarding ABL002, I have participated in this loan (as well as the first) but was somewhat taken aback at the relatively high BLX LTV on this second loan. This led me to look a little more carefully than I had previously at the various default scenarios. As a result I have a couple of questions regarding the (probably unlikely) scenario in which BLX defaults, but the BLX borrower does not (i.e the BLX borrower continues to make good the payments due under the hire agreement, which now are assigned to Funding Empire). In this scenario: Q1) will Funding Empire lenders receive the full benefit of the monthly payments now flowing from the BLX borrowers to FE? In the case of ABL002 this would amount to around an additional £56 per month, if my calculations are correct. It would seem only right that they should, to compensate FE lenders' for the higher risk they would then be exposed to -among other things, the substantially increased LTV and loss of PG (see next question). Q2) am I right in thinking that any Personal Guarantees relating to the agreement with BLX will NOT transfer to FE in this default scenario (i.e. that the PG is a contract between the end borrower and BLX only, and therefore not enforcable by FE)? Although I do not generally place great value on PGs, they do offer some degree of comfort to lenders, so the loss of this element further increases slightly the risk to FE lenders. Q3) In order to take over the hire agreement, does FE have to satisfy any additional legal requirements over and above those it would have to satisfy simple as a P2P lending platform? I'm sorry if this particular question is a bit vague - I guess I have at the back of my mind all the safeguards around consumer credit agreements - I seem to remember firms who gave such credit had to be specially licensed. Thanks Chris
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Apr 13, 2015 16:21:45 GMT
just to follow this thread
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paulgul
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Post by paulgul on Apr 14, 2015 9:56:49 GMT
Just signed up to FE and having a small dabble in ABL002 just to test the water. If we get a series of these loans, as might be the case, it could prove worthwhile
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Post by parag on Apr 14, 2015 10:10:52 GMT
Hi parag, regarding ABL002, I have participated in this loan (as well as the first) but was somewhat taken aback at the relatively high BLX LTV on this second loan. This led me to look a little more carefully than I had previously at the various default scenarios. As a result I have a couple of questions regarding the (probably unlikely) scenario in which BLX defaults, but the BLX borrower does not (i.e the BLX borrower continues to make good the payments due under the hire agreement, which now are assigned to Funding Empire). In this scenario: Q1) will Funding Empire lenders receive the full benefit of the monthly payments now flowing from the BLX borrowers to FE? In the case of ABL002 this would amount to around an additional £56 per month, if my calculations are correct. It would seem only right that they should, to compensate FE lenders' for the higher risk they would then be exposed to -among other things, the substantially increased LTV and loss of PG (see next question). Q2) am I right in thinking that any Personal Guarantees relating to the agreement with BLX will NOT transfer to FE in this default scenario (i.e. that the PG is a contract between the end borrower and BLX only, and therefore not enforcable by FE)? Although I do not generally place great value on PGs, they do offer some degree of comfort to lenders, so the loss of this element further increases slightly the risk to FE lenders. Q3) In order to take over the hire agreement, does FE have to satisfy any additional legal requirements over and above those it would have to satisfy simple as a P2P lending platform? I'm sorry if this particular question is a bit vague - I guess I have at the back of my mind all the safeguards around consumer credit agreements - I seem to remember firms who gave such credit had to be specially licensed. Thanks Chris baldpate shimself paulgulThank you for lending through us, greatly appreciated. It is worth noting that the LTV decreases every time a repayment is made. This is because repayments comprise of capital as well as interest. To answer specifically your questions relating to the scenario you outlined: 1) The full benefit of all rights relating to the hire agreement would pass to Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited, subject to the proviso that in the event of full repayment of the secured liabilities, these rights will pass back to BLX. 2) The benefit of any personal guarantees between BLX and any End User would be assigned to Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited in a default scenario subject to the proviso that in the event of full repayment of the secured liabilities, these rights will pass back to BLX. 3) We do not need any additional permissions to carry out consumer credit activities. We are already authorised for this as well as operating a peer to peer lending platform. I hope this helps and if you have any other questions, please let me know. Kind Regards, Parag
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madpierre
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Post by madpierre on Apr 14, 2015 11:06:29 GMT
I am looking forward to a bright future with Funding Empire but have reluctantly passed on ABL002 due to the high LTV. I appreciate parag's comments that LTV does decline with each payment but the risk is high in the early stages, as a quick sale required after any default may struggle to raise sufficient funds at the initial level of LTV.
I may have been tempted if the interest rate offered was higher but certainly would have participated if the LTV was lower. Just a point to bear in mind for future loans but, in the meantime, please hurry up and let's see ABL003
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Post by parag on Apr 14, 2015 13:13:38 GMT
I am looking forward to a bright future with Funding Empire but have reluctantly passed on ABL002 due to the high LTV. I appreciate parag's comments that LTV does decline with each payment but the risk is high in the early stages, as a quick sale required after any default may struggle to raise sufficient funds at the initial level of LTV.
I may have been tempted if the interest rate offered was higher but certainly would have participated if the LTV was lower. Just a point to bear in mind for future loans but, in the meantime, please hurry up and let's see ABL003 madpierre Thank you for your comments. The risk you outline exists only if BLX were to default on their payments to our lenders and we stepped in to collect the repayments due from their borrower AND they also default on their agreement. In this case if the recovery and sale of the asset did not cover the amount outstanding to our lenders, we would instigate legal proceedings to recover any shortfall from the end borrower. LTV's for loans under this model will vary depending on the strength of each deal and the outcome of BLX's credit assessment process which looks at the financial standing of the borrower as well as the asset being funded. ABL3 will be going live this afternoon! Hope this helps and if you have any other questions, please feel free to drop me a line. Kind Regards, Parag
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Post by blxjohn on Apr 14, 2015 13:54:24 GMT
Hi parag, regarding ABL002, I have participated in this loan (as well as the first) but was somewhat taken aback at the relatively high BLX LTV on this second loan. This led me to look a little more carefully than I had previously at the various default scenarios. As a result I have a couple of questions regarding the (probably unlikely) scenario in which BLX defaults, but the BLX borrower does not (i.e the BLX borrower continues to make good the payments due under the hire agreement, which now are assigned to Funding Empire). In this scenario: Q1) will Funding Empire lenders receive the full benefit of the monthly payments now flowing from the BLX borrowers to FE? In the case of ABL002 this would amount to around an additional £56 per month, if my calculations are correct. It would seem only right that they should, to compensate FE lenders' for the higher risk they would then be exposed to -among other things, the substantially increased LTV and loss of PG (see next question). Q2) am I right in thinking that any Personal Guarantees relating to the agreement with BLX will NOT transfer to FE in this default scenario (i.e. that the PG is a contract between the end borrower and BLX only, and therefore not enforcable by FE)? Although I do not generally place great value on PGs, they do offer some degree of comfort to lenders, so the loss of this element further increases slightly the risk to FE lenders. Q3) In order to take over the hire agreement, does FE have to satisfy any additional legal requirements over and above those it would have to satisfy simple as a P2P lending platform? I'm sorry if this particular question is a bit vague - I guess I have at the back of my mind all the safeguards around consumer credit agreements - I seem to remember firms who gave such credit had to be specially licensed. Thanks Chris Apologies to baldpate and others. I am not used to posting on forums and apparently sent some blank replies out! BLX LTVs will sometimes be higher when there are no extra assets available as security. The minimum deposit asked for in our sector is usually 15% and these lower deposit transactions will only be underwritten if we are satisfied with aspects such as a long time in business, ‘cleaner’ searches etc. (In the agreement to which you refer, the deposit was lower but searches were acceptable, the client also owned a Buy To Let property, and the limited company owned 3 yards.) parag answered the other points but I also wanted to stress that, when an agreement terminates due to default, we look on this as an accelerated profit opportunity. With our sister company, currently in it’s 4th year, and with my previous company (which I co-founded and later floated), it has been proven that these default terminations create significant levels of cash overall. Regards John (I hope I have pressed the right buttons this time!)
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Post by parag on Apr 14, 2015 17:29:24 GMT
Just a short note to say that ABL003 has now been listed on the platform.
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coop
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Post by coop on Apr 15, 2015 10:03:54 GMT
Excellent! 36 hous left on abl002; hope it fills
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baldpate
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Post by baldpate on Apr 16, 2015 10:46:45 GMT
Hi again parag, thanks for your earlier reply to my question about the BLX default scenario. There are a couple of aspects of your reply which I'd like to follow-up on (one because I'm in agreement, one because I don't fully understand the implications of your statement): ... It is worth noting that the LTV decreases every time a repayment is made. This is because repayments comprise of capital as well as interest.... Your point is well taken, Parag. Indeed, the fact that these loans are fully amortizing was definitely one of the factors which induced me to participate at the rate on offer. Although, in fairness, it should be pointed out that the assets which back the first two loans (cars and commercial vehicles) are themselves subject to depreciation. Nonetheless, in the case of the truck (Loan #2) in particular, I imagine the rate of depreciation is very much less than the rate at which the loan principal is repaid - another reason why I was not overly concerned by the high initial LTV. In fact, I have just yesterday increased my exposure to this loan. To answer specifically your questions relating to the scenario you outlined: 1) The full benefit of all rights relating to the hire agreement would pass to Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited, subject to the proviso that in the event of full repayment of the secured liabilities, these rights will pass back to BLX. Your reply, whilst I am sure it legally and factually completely accurate, doesn't really help me (a non-expert in such matters) understand exactly what happens in the default scenario. Am I right in understanding from your reply that, following default by BLX, repayments made by the BLX borrower will be received by FESTCL (Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited), and that FESTCL will use this money to make repayments to FE lenders at the originally agreed rate? Inevitably, in a default situation, there will a backlog of overdue payments; however, once this has been satisfied a situation may arise in which FESTCL is receiving from the BLX borrower more than it must pay out to FE lenders. I'm trying to understand what happens to that potential surplus. Must FESTCL return that surplus to BLX (or its administrator)? If so, at what point? For example, may FESTCL (temporarily) retain the surplus until the BLX borrower has repaid the loan in full (thus building a buffer against later possible default by the BLX borrower)? Or have I completely misunderstood?
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Post by parag on Apr 16, 2015 16:35:59 GMT
baldpate I have drafted a response and am awaiting compliance sign off. I will post the reply tomorrow for you once it has been signed off. Kind Regards, Parag
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Post by parag on Apr 20, 2015 10:19:16 GMT
Hi again parag, thanks for your earlier reply to my question about the BLX default scenario. There are a couple of aspects of your reply which I'd like to follow-up on (one because I'm in agreement, one because I don't fully understand the implications of your statement): ... It is worth noting that the LTV decreases every time a repayment is made. This is because repayments comprise of capital as well as interest.... Your point is well taken, Parag. Indeed, the fact that these loans are fully amortizing was definitely one of the factors which induced me to participate at the rate on offer. Although, in fairness, it should be pointed out that the assets which back the first two loans (cars and commercial vehicles) are themselves subject to depreciation. Nonetheless, in the case of the truck (Loan #2) in particular, I imagine the rate of depreciation is very much less than the rate at which the loan principal is repaid - another reason why I was not overly concerned by the high initial LTV. In fact, I have just yesterday increased my exposure to this loan. To answer specifically your questions relating to the scenario you outlined: 1) The full benefit of all rights relating to the hire agreement would pass to Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited, subject to the proviso that in the event of full repayment of the secured liabilities, these rights will pass back to BLX. Your reply, whilst I am sure it legally and factually completely accurate, doesn't really help me (a non-expert in such matters) understand exactly what happens in the default scenario. Am I right in understanding from your reply that, following default by BLX, repayments made by the BLX borrower will be received by FESTCL (Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited), and that FESTCL will use this money to make repayments to FE lenders at the originally agreed rate? Inevitably, in a default situation, there will a backlog of overdue payments; however, once this has been satisfied a situation may arise in which FESTCL is receiving from the BLX borrower more than it must pay out to FE lenders. I'm trying to understand what happens to that potential surplus. Must FESTCL return that surplus to BLX (or its administrator)? If so, at what point? For example, may FESTCL (temporarily) retain the surplus until the BLX borrower has repaid the loan in full (thus building a buffer against later possible default by the BLX borrower)? Or have I completely misunderstood? Hi baldpate Apologies for the delay in replying to your question. Here are our responses which I hope will answer the questions you raised. In regards the first point about LTV's and depreciation. A large majority of vehicles covered under these agreements are second hand and therefore the statement you make about the rate of depreciation being less than the rate of principal repaid is correct in the vast majority of cases. As they are second hand vehicles they have already depreciated considerably. This would be very different if the vehicles were being purchased as brand new from a dealer. On the second point, apologies for not making it clearer. I will answer the points you have raised below: Q: "Am I right in understanding from your reply that, following default by BLX, repayments made by the BLX borrower will be received by FESTCL (Funding Empire Security Trustee Company Limited), and that FESTCL will use this money to make repayments to FE lenders at the originally agreed rate?"
A: This is correct. Q: "Inevitably, in a default situation, there will a backlog of overdue payments; however, once this has been satisfied a situation may arise in which FESTCL is receiving from the BLX borrower more than it must pay out to FE lenders. I'm trying to understand what happens to that potential surplus. Must FESTCL return that surplus to BLX (or its administrator)? If so, at what point? For example, may FESTCL (temporarily) retain the surplus until the BLX borrower has repaid the loan in full (thus building a buffer against later possible default by the BLX borrower)? Or have I completely misunderstood?"A: Under the terms of the debenture, BLX has to discharge its obligations under the Funding Empire loan agreements. If BLX defaults on, say, two Funding Empire loan agreements, then under the terms of the debenture, the underlying BLX hire agreements are to be assigned over to FESTCL and each BLX borrower will have to send its repayments to FESTCL instead of BLX. FESTCL would use those repayments to recoup monies lost. If the repayments of one of the BLX borrowers results in one of the Funding Empire loan agreements being repaid in full and there is also a surplus of monies, under the terms of the security trust deed, FESTCL can apply that surplus to the other Funding Empire loan in default. However, if BLX is in default for just one Funding Empire loan and is still making payments on other Funding Empire loans and there is a surplus remaining after the BLX borrower makes its repayments to FESTCL then FESTCL is not entitled to retain such surplus just in case BLX defaults on the other Funding Empire loans. However, I expect that there has to be careful calculations etc to be made so I would not be surprised if FESTCL does not return any surplus to BLX immediately. I expect the timing of the return of any surplus would have to be considered on a case by case basis by FESTCL. Hope this helps and if you have any other questions please let me know. Kind Regards, Parag
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baldpate
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Post by baldpate on Apr 20, 2015 18:13:54 GMT
parag, thank you very much for your reply, which helps to make things a lot clearer. Particularly welcome is the fact that recoveries from defaulting BLX loans can 'cross-subsidize' one another. Although some details are still a little unclear, I feel you have been treading a carefull line in what you can and cannot say, so I shall not press you further. One thing that surprises me slightly is the fact that the loan agreement with BLX does not allow for interest at higher rates to apply a default. This is not an uncommon feature of loan contracts, I believe, and would have given some comfort to lenders in the case of a BLX default. Perhaps something to consider if Funding Empire enters into similar arrangements with other partners (which I hope you will be considering, since there will be a limit to how much exposure I - and other prudent lenders, I imagine - will wish to have to any one borrower, security notwithstanding). Thanks again for your time.
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Post by parag on Apr 21, 2015 12:02:11 GMT
parag, thank you very much for your reply, which helps to make things a lot clearer. Particularly welcome is the fact that recoveries from defaulting BLX loans can 'cross-subsidize' one another. Although some details are still a little unclear, I feel you have been treading a carefull line in what you can and cannot say, so I shall not press you further. One thing that surprises me slightly is the fact that the loan agreement with BLX does not allow for interest at higher rates to apply a default. This is not an uncommon feature of loan contracts, I believe, and would have given some comfort to lenders in the case of a BLX default. Perhaps something to consider if Funding Empire enters into similar arrangements with other partners (which I hope you will be considering, since there will be a limit to how much exposure I - and other prudent lenders, I imagine - will wish to have to any one borrower, security notwithstanding). Thanks again for your time. baldpate No problem at all. Clause 5.3 in our loan agreement allows us to charge the borrower 4% p.a. above their original 'Interest Rate' on any overdue amounts. This only applies to overdue amounts and is in place to deter borrowers from making late repayments. This default fee is used to cover any administration costs in managing the default account. In exceptional circumstances and at FESTCL sole discretion, it may decide to use this additional default interest to reimburse lenders if they have suffered any shortfall / loss. Please note this does not mean lenders are automatically entitled to any default interest. Your point that other loan contracts have a default rate is true but they are different products with different repayment profiles e.g. bridging loans. We are looking at other partners / products at the moment but as you can appreciate we need to be more than comfortable with the partners we choose to collaborate with. Many have approached us but we have not been comfortable with them for a variety of reasons. The BLX team are highly experienced in asset-backed lending, have an excellent unblemished track record, have lent through many economic cycles and have a robust recovery process in place. In addition to this they have appointed me as a non-exec director, provided full access to their financials / live loan book and I am invited to all board meetings. Not many partners are willing to offer this and we are not happy with anything less. That being said we should have at least 2 new products to offer lenders in the next 6-8 weeks. I cannot say much more at this point, but I will be sure to make a post on here once they are live. Please do not hesitate to ask any other questions you may have. I dedicate around 30 mins a day to this forum and am more than happy to continue to do so. Kind Regards, Parag
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