james
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Post by james on Jul 27, 2015 8:49:09 GMT
Please identify up to three P2P lending-based platforms where you think most of your money would go in August 2015 if given a free choice. The list is in order of amount lent in June 2015. The poll is open until the end of August 2015. Many UK places and some of the leading non-UK places are included in the list. It appears that you can change your choices until the poll ends. This is following up on a poll done back in April. If you vote "other" please post here or privately to me so I can make a note of an entry I need to add for next time. After a while I'll put them anonymously in a post for others to see if you tell me only privately. If you work for a platform don't do this for that platform, I'm more interested in what the customers are doing than the owners/employees. |
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jul 27, 2015 9:49:39 GMT
If you had asked this question a few weeks ago I would definitely have included Ablrate. But how do you go about investing in a platform that offers absolutely NO new investing opportunities?
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mv
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Post by mv on Jul 27, 2015 10:33:11 GMT
In the same vein, part of the reason I have a lot invested in SS is because there has recently been plenty of opportunity (and the SM remains fairly liquid)
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Jul 27, 2015 13:28:50 GMT
Well, that'll teach me not to read all the recent posts before replying to the old poll...
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bob2014
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Post by bob2014 on Jul 28, 2015 8:49:06 GMT
New investors looking at this table might like to note that I consider my investments in Zopa, Ratesetter, Funding Circle, and Assetz full and am diversifying.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 6, 2015 19:24:53 GMT
Here's how the numbers look so far, with 199 votes from 87 voters, numbers are rounded percentages:
23.6 Saving Stream
15.6 MoneyThing
15.6 FundingSecure
13.6 Assetz Capital
10.6 Ratesetter
7.0 NOT GOING TO VOTE, JUST SHOW ME THE ANSWERS
6.5 Funding Circle
4.5 ThinCats
2.5 Ablrate
2.5 Other
2.0 Wellesley
1.5 Rebuilding Society
1.0 Zopa
0.5 Bondora
0.5 Lending Works
0.5 FundingKnight
0.5 Landbay
0.0 Auxmoney
0.0 Pret d'Union
0.0 Folk2Folk
The previous April poll numbers that allowed only one vote per person, 152 voters:
26.3 RateSetter
21.1 Assetz Capital
12.5 Saving Stream
7.9 MoneyThing
6.6 ThinCats
6.6 Ablrate
5.3 Funding Circle
2.6 Funding Secure
2.0 Rebuilding Society
2.0 Wellesley
0.0 Zopa
7.2 Other
Or with the original sort:
6.5 Funding Circle
1.0 Zopa
10.6 Ratesetter
0.0 Auxmoney
0.0 Pret d'Union
2.0 Wellesley
23.6 Saving Stream
4.5 ThinCats
0.0 Folk2Folk
13.6 Assetz Capital
0.5 Bondora
0.5 Lending Works
0.5 FundingKnight
0.5 Landbay
1.5 Rebuilding Society
2.5 Ablrate
15.6 MoneyThing
15.6 FundingSecure
2.5 Other
7.0 NOT GOING TO VOTE, JUST SHOW ME THE ANSWERS
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Post by westonkevRS on Aug 10, 2015 6:48:38 GMT
There is clearly a lot more choice and competition in this spae right now, with " 114 companies have sought full authorisation since the Financial Conduct Authority took over regulation of P2P last year, while 178 companies have interim permission to operate, according to figures obtained from the FCA: m.ft.com/cms/s/0/9de09e0c-3e84-11e5-9abe-5b335da3a90e.html?siteedition=uk" Cormac Leech, analyst at Liberum, said that in terms of volumes “we are still in the foothills of the whole phenomenon. However, he believes 90 per cent of start-up P2P platforms are likely doomed to fail." Shame he didn't say which 90% ! @ westonkevRSlink.ratesetter.com/8Ls46js www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=19236219 |
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Aug 11, 2015 13:17:02 GMT
Wow, 115 voters and saving stream got a vote by 50% of them, 57 votes so far.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 12, 2015 4:29:14 GMT
I don't think people realize how unbelievably risky Savings Stream is. Platform default risks imminent. Care to elaborate? On what do you base your statement that risk of platform default is "imminent"?
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Aug 12, 2015 8:51:10 GMT
Yes, it would be good to hear if optionstrader has some specific information. From what I can see from previous posts optionstrader is generally cautious about P2P in general, citing concerns about defaults if there is an economic downturn. This is a valid viewpoint but applies to P2P across the board. Why single out Saving Stream in particular?
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james
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Post by james on Aug 12, 2015 9:05:39 GMT
Platform default risks imminent. Platform default risks aren't just imminent, they are ever-present for all P2P platforms, so you'll really need to be more specific about what's causing you to have concerns about any particular platform or class of platform. For example, you might have concerns about the effect of interest rate rises on mortgage affordability and hence the market for refurbished properties and hence have concerns that the risk of defaulting borrowers would increase for such platforms. Then you might express a concern about a particular platform that the loan duration is not sufficiently short for loans to end naturally before the issue becomes significant and that you do not believe that any buy-back or protection or insurance facility will be sufficient to cover the matter satisfactorily, and why you hold those beliefs. My experience here is that all platforms are quite comfortable with detailed discussions of such matters, just so long as the matter is specific enough for it to be practically possible to respond to whatever the concerns involved are. Indeed, I expect that there would be no need or the relevant platforms to reply in the majority of cases because lenders could explain the relevant mitigations. Which is what I suggest the platform does, just let the discussion evolve naturally and they probably won't have a need to reply at all in the fullness of time.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 12, 2015 9:22:22 GMT
Nonetheless, I would agree that at a broader level the poll suggests investors are placing too little emphasis on platform risk and track record whilst too much emphasis is being placed simply on the outright level of yield and liquidity. Most platforms, as start-ups, have weak balance sheets and cashflow positions. Most will likely fail or be taken over in the next 5 years. That's partly where I hope people are exercising care with their diversification between as well as within platforms. While my risk tolerance is at the speculative end I currently have less than 6% of my invested money in any single platform. While I might go as high as 15% those with more cautious inclinations should consider a 5% or lower cap. This is a big part of why I provided for three responses in the poll, since that's an implicit suggestion that diversification is wise. I see a tendency for all platforms to have a honeymoon period, followed at some point later by a growing feeling of disappointment! Nonetheless, I do find it very odd that SS and MT are so popular. The problem is that you can't say anything negative on this forum because people still have a rose-tinted view. I agree on that tendency. I do think that it's good to expound on the risks even early on, though. Saving Stream and Money Thing provide secured lending at quite pleasing rates, though currently with quirks on the Saving Stream side. I expect that quite a few are finding them to offer welcome diversification opportunities.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 12, 2015 9:26:11 GMT
I know nothing to substantiate the statement above and see no reason for default to be 'imminent'. Nonetheless, I would agree that at a broader level the poll suggests investors are placing too little emphasis on platform risk and track record whilst too much emphasis is being placed simply on the outright level of yield and liquidity. Most platforms, as start-ups, have weak balance sheets and cashflow positions. Most will likely fail or be taken over in the next 5 years. I see a tendency for all platforms to have a honeymoon period, followed at some point later by a growing feeling of disappointment! Nonetheless, I do find it very odd that SS and MT are so popular. The problem is that you can't say anything negative on this forum because people still have a rose-tinted view. Ha, I read plenty on this forum that's negative so I reckon your fears are unfounded there! I suspect SS and MT's popularity stems largely from the fact that they're amongst the simplest, least time-consuming ways to get a good rate of return that's backed by decent asset security (which can never be 100% watertight but I favour over an unsecured PG). Everyone gets the same rate, so inexperienced lenders aren't subsidising the profits of the experts / flippers. SS benefits from a (currently highly liquid) SM plus a modest provision fund, whilst MT loans are max 6 months before your money should be returned (or offered for roll-over reinvestment)
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Aug 12, 2015 9:47:12 GMT
It will be good if anyone who thinks SS and MT are risky avoids them as there is too much money chasing too few loans.
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 12, 2015 10:00:09 GMT
[Mod hat on] Financial Thing Your post is "potentially libelous" and has exposed yourself to the risk of legal action against you. You would be well advised to explain your reasoning or to publicly retract it as a matter of urgency. I would also strongly recommend you approach the FCA with any information you have. The mod team may ultimately decide to hide your post (and the subsequent discussion of it) but for now they remain unmoderated to act as a reminder that a platform risk that is perhaps not routinely considered is the risk of unsubstantiated allegations against a platform causing lender panic.
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