stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 23, 2015 20:01:08 GMT
Two of my favorite sites are MT and FS, but they do come up with some strange stuff! Unbolted is now in that market as well and there will undoubtedly be more
Cars, property, art, gold etc
I was wondering how other people evaluate the variety of security and what pitfalls and tips people might have?
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Sept 24, 2015 7:05:39 GMT
Some tips based on my personal experience: - I like low LTV loans. This means that I generally favour MT over FS.
- I avoid the loans secured on art, since valuation tends to be very subjective. I know several FS loans secured against art have suffered recoveries well below their estimates.
- I do not get involved in the property loans on these websites. I prefer other platforms more suited to property such as SS.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 8:40:34 GMT
more or less in line with jonbvn, art worries me, more because its "value" is a slight of the hand (think cowry shells and island communities)
gold stuff worries me as the LTVs may not be not based on the scrap value but the retail value, hence LTVs of 50% look good but are meh.... only ok.
I do take property, but worry about multiple tranches, which I try to avoid.
Brand new power boats, cars, libraries, since the deals are for 6 months I tend to "trust" the values.
Caravans, "luxury" boats which are not (I know a wee bit about boats) avoid, resell values vary by the month/season. After all who buys a yacht in October? You just have to pay to store it for 6 months.
Aircraft.... valuations are more medium term cyclic so I would take a 6 months pawn rather than a 5 year loan.
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 24, 2015 19:38:19 GMT
Avoid motorbike loans in spring / summer ... when the 6 months is up there will be minimal demand for motorbikes if the loan defaults. Same argument earlier poster made re caravans.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 24, 2015 20:17:35 GMT
We should avoid summer-seasonal stuff like caravans/motorbikes in the autumn/winter, because the security is reduced until spring and summer.
We should avoid them in spring and summer, because they'll be low value at the end of the six months.
So...?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 24, 2015 21:26:51 GMT
We should avoid summer-seasonal stuff like caravans/motorbikes in the autumn/winter, because the security is reduced until spring and summer. : I don't follow. A pawn loan isn't going to default until the end of the term, so if it's a 6-month loan taken at this time of year it'll be spring when/if it defaults and it should be saleable then. Just watch out for a loan renewal, as that would move any default to the wrong time of year. Not to mention that renewals tend not to come with updated valuations, and a caravan/motorbike that's six months older probably will be worth a bit less than it was at the beginning.
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ben
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Post by ben on Sept 25, 2015 23:15:37 GMT
Unless you know about art I would avoid it like the plague , I can never understand how something can be worth a small fortune and similar drawing not worth anything but is just as good. A lot of art at auction can be sold for less then expected
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Post by eascogo on Oct 2, 2015 22:29:01 GMT
Unless you know about art I would avoid it like the plague , I can never understand how something can be worth a small fortune and similar drawing not worth anything but is just as good. A lot of art at auction can be sold for less then expected Agreed, but two of the current asset-based loan requests at FS are relevant: Italian Book Collection
Asset value: £3,000,000
Loan request: £525,000
LTV: 17.50% 98% subscribed Interest: 13% Land Rover Defender
Asset value: £50,000
Loan request: £35,000
Term: 6 months
LTV: 70% Subscription open tomorrow Interest: 8% Only a specialist could suggest a value to the Italian book collection but the low LTV inspires confidence: to the extent that some investors are into five digit territory with this loan. In contrast it is much easier to estimate the value of the Land Rover about which a wealth of information is available on the web. And it is my suspicion that here the asset is overvalued, to the extent that the LTV is closer to 100%. If I am correct it would follow that the interest on offer may be less attractive. This said I still retain sufficient confidence in the platform to tag along.
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Post by eascogo on Oct 2, 2015 22:44:35 GMT
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 3, 2015 9:07:33 GMT
Unless you know about art I would avoid it like the plague , I can never understand how something can be worth a small fortune and similar drawing not worth anything but is just as good. A lot of art at auction can be sold for less then expected Agreed, but two of the current asset-based loan requests at FS are relevant: Italian Book Collection
Asset value: £3,000,000
Loan request: £525,000
LTV: 17.50% 98% subscribed Interest: 13% Land Rover Defender
Asset value: £50,000
Loan request: £35,000
Term: 6 months
LTV: 70% Subscription open tomorrow Interest: 8% Only a specialist could suggest a value to the Italian book collection but the low LTV inspires confidence: to the extent that some investors are into five digit territory with this loan. In contrast it is much easier to estimate the value of the Land Rover about which a wealth of information is available on the web. And it is my suspicion that here the asset is overvalued, to the extent that the LTV is closer to 100%. If I am correct it would follow that the interest on offer may be less attractive. This said I still retain sufficient confidence in the platform to tag along.
The Italian Book Collection is a good example of how do you evaluate the weird stuff? I would think the valuations for art stuff should be taken with a massive pinch of salt - value for insurance purposes would differ wildly from value expected at auction. For this example, the valuation conservatively as much as +/- £1 million. Additionally, this example would be easy to separate and sell as small lots, but should it be a smaller number of items or just one at 3 million, then there could be a long time waiting for that very specific buyer to come along. This example also had secondary charges - I do not know enough amount loans to know if the secondary loans defaulted, does that mean the asset would be sold? Additionally, there is no indication of where the asset is held, if there is insurance cover during the loan period in case the asset goes up in smoke or something etc
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 4, 2015 12:33:42 GMT
I wouldn't touch an aircraft, if the thing isn't maintained and loses its licence to fly, the value will plummet.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 4, 2015 18:00:43 GMT
That's why there are strict regulations for maintenance and excess money put aside - maybe you should do some research and you could then give a knowledgeable opinion
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Post by oldnick on Oct 4, 2015 18:16:14 GMT
That's why there are strict regulations for maintenance and excess money put aside - maybe you should do some research and you could then give a knowledgeable opinion Oh, I thought it was an attempt at levity - was I mistaken?
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Oct 4, 2015 18:43:18 GMT
Attempts at levity won't fly around here ...
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 4, 2015 18:56:52 GMT
That's why there are strict regulations for maintenance and excess money put aside - maybe you should do some research and you could then give a knowledgeable opinion Oh, I thought it was an attempt at levity - was I mistaken? Maybe, but flew right over my head (but did anyone actually mention an aircraft to start with?)
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