unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Feb 14, 2014 22:08:14 GMT
both auctions delayed and now 5 days apart.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 15, 2014 15:39:23 GMT
I must admit to being a bit hacked off with AC putting back the auction close (and thus the likely drawdown) as I've bid for both these loans against my better judgement. Dead time is a killer for 6-month loans. I also bid for H***n*y in 50% of the size I wanted. In the case of H***n*y, I would have been better not bothering as I could have bought it all (<£10k) on the secondary market in minutes and avoided any dead time . It seems to me that without a cashback incentive, there is zero value in bidding in the primary market for large loans. AC might aswell get the whole loan underwritten and move it to the secondary market instantly. However, I see longer-term issues for AC with that approach. AC will need to find an ever larger stream of underwriters, and those underwriters will need to be able to flip their holdings quickly so they can recycle funds into the next primary deal. I don't think it will help develop the mid-sized investor (£1k to £25k per deal). It's that type of investor that TC has but which AC doesn't seem to yet. The AC investor base seems barbeled between big underwriters (£100k+ per deal) and small investors (<£1k per deal) Agreed, it's not worth bidding on these high value units where it's a certainty underwriters will be involved. Best to go for them on the aftermarket IMO.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 15, 2014 18:30:13 GMT
I must admit to being a bit hacked off with AC putting back the auction close (and thus the likely drawdown) ... Keeping the auction open longer shouldn't affect drawdown timing. With an underwritten loan, the borrower knows their financing is in place, so they should be proceeding diligently towards drawdown -- whether the auction is closed, or still open so that the underwriters can be displaced.
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Post by chris on Feb 16, 2014 11:24:33 GMT
I must admit to being a bit hacked off with AC putting back the auction close (and thus the likely drawdown) ... Keeping the auction open longer shouldn't affect drawdown timing. With an underwritten loan, the borrower knows their financing is in place, so they should be proceeding diligently towards drawdown -- whether the auction is closed, or still open so that the underwriters can be displaced. This is the case.
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Post by jackpease on Feb 18, 2014 8:59:24 GMT
Please could someone talk me through the risk aspect of two linked loans like this?
I've bid a lot (for me) on both of these as i'm desperate Assetz funds loan of this size otherwise it will not offer them in future - but having two linked loans for me means that if one goes tits up then so does the other - ergo I can't bid as much as i'd perhaps like on each one.
Seasoned investors - am i right to think like this?
I fear that if we just sit back and let the underwriters deal with large loans then the underwriters will take large fees which would otherwise be available to Assetz and its investors.
Jack
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Post by jevans4949 on Feb 18, 2014 9:58:57 GMT
Please could someone talk me through the risk aspect of two linked loans like this? I've bid a lot (for me) on both of these as i'm desperate Assetz funds loan of this size otherwise it will not offer them in future - but having two linked loans for me means that if one goes tits up then so does the other - ergo I can't bid as much as i'd perhaps like on each one. Seasoned investors - am i right to think like this? Although I have put a small amount into each of these, I admit I am asking myself why I did. First off, I ask myself why the borrower allowed the existing loan (or loans) to expire without taking some action earlier. Second, why go for two separate loans, rather than one? Third, is the Epping house really worth the asking price - if so, why isn't it selling? Or is there an offer on it already - which would increase lenders' confidence. Fourth, why didn't the borrower anticipate the current scenario and postpone buying a new house?
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 18, 2014 13:18:18 GMT
Please could someone talk me through the risk aspect of two linked loans like this? I've bid a lot (for me) on both of these as i'm desperate Assetz funds loan of this size otherwise it will not offer them in future - but having two linked loans for me means that if one goes tits up then so does the other - ergo I can't bid as much as i'd perhaps like on each one. Seasoned investors - am i right to think like this? I fear that if we just sit back and let the underwriters deal with large loans then the underwriters will take large fees which would otherwise be available to Assetz and its investors. Jack I've gone for both of these myself as I'm comfortable with the LTV. Apart from the LTV, the other reason I've jumped in is the AC '....Very quick drawdown expected due to the expiry of prior bridging loan....' otherwise I'd probably have waited until the underwriters were offloading their holdings in the aftermarket. With these large loans it looks as though you're always going to have underwriters involved. To add to the mystery, there are a couple of relatively low loan requests which appear to be light years from filling. Either the returns being offered are not considered high enough or the risk doesn't make lenders feel comfortable. The latter applies in my case. So I don't believe you can apply a blanket rule across loan requests. Each one is an individual and that's how I approach things.
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Post by batchoy on Feb 18, 2014 14:10:42 GMT
Please could someone talk me through the risk aspect of two linked loans like this? I've bid a lot (for me) on both of these as i'm desperate Assetz funds loan of this size otherwise it will not offer them in future - but having two linked loans for me means that if one goes tits up then so does the other - ergo I can't bid as much as i'd perhaps like on each one. Seasoned investors - am i right to think like this? I fear that if we just sit back and let the underwriters deal with large loans then the underwriters will take large fees which would otherwise be available to Assetz and its investors. Jack I've gone for both of these myself as I'm comfortable with the LTV. Apart from the LTV, the other reason I've jumped in is the AC '....Very quick drawdown expected due to the expiry of prior bridging loan....' otherwise I'd probably have waited until the underwriters were offloading their holdings in the aftermarket. With these large loans it looks as though you're always going to have underwriters involved. To add to the mystery, there are a couple of relatively low loan requests which appear to be light years from filling. Either the returns being offered are not considered high enough or the risk doesn't make lenders feel comfortable. The latter applies in my case. So I don't believe you can apply a blanket rule across loan requests. Each one is an individual and that's how I approach things. I have got a bit of both of these and I now note that they have both been extended but are fully underwritten so the the borrower has no reason not to be ensuring that all necessaries are in place for a quick draw down. However one thing that could be improved ( chris/ andrewholgate) is having dated changes on the loan summary/loan information. For example the Ipswich bridge now says "NOW FULLY UNDERWRITTEN - BIDS STILL BEING TAKEN TO BID OUT UNDERWRITING - AUCTION CLOSE DELAYED TO ALLOW MORE BIDS PENDING COMPLETION OF LEGALS - DRAWDOWN EXPECTED IN 7-10 DAYS" but there is no way of telling other than memory as to when those notes were added/edited.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 18, 2014 14:17:48 GMT
Good job I didn't actually transfer real funds today as the date has suddenly been equalised with the other one. Surely you could have equalised the date for these form the start, and maintained parallel changes. (They're still nineteen hours apart).
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 18, 2014 14:18:50 GMT
I've gone for both of these myself as I'm comfortable with the LTV. Apart from the LTV, the other reason I've jumped in is the AC '....Very quick drawdown expected due to the expiry of prior bridging loan....' otherwise I'd probably have waited until the underwriters were offloading their holdings in the aftermarket. With these large loans it looks as though you're always going to have underwriters involved. To add to the mystery, there are a couple of relatively low loan requests which appear to be light years from filling. Either the returns being offered are not considered high enough or the risk doesn't make lenders feel comfortable. The latter applies in my case. So I don't believe you can apply a blanket rule across loan requests. Each one is an individual and that's how I approach things. I have got a bit of both of these and I now note that they have both been extended but are fully underwritten so the the borrower has no reason not to be ensuring that all necessaries are in place for a quick draw down. However one thing that could be improved ( chris/ andrewholgate) is having dated changes on the loan summary/loan information. For example the Ipswich bridge now says "NOW FULLY UNDERWRITTEN - BIDS STILL BEING TAKEN TO BID OUT UNDERWRITING - AUCTION CLOSE DELAYED TO ALLOW MORE BIDS PENDING COMPLETION OF LEGALS - DRAWDOWN EXPECTED IN 7-10 DAYS" but there is no way of telling other than memory as to when those notes were added/edited. IIRC, once they are fully funded then the process starts re drawdown. Agreed though, it would help if a date was added to the note.
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Post by andrewholgate on Feb 18, 2014 15:05:06 GMT
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Feb 18, 2014 15:37:52 GMT
jackpease quote "I fear that if we just sit back and let the underwriters deal with large loans then the underwriters will take large fees which would otherwise be available to Assetz and its investors. "
Well as the auction was nearly ending (just over a day to go) I thought I'd do the right thing and bid rather than just buy on the aftermarket and help AC keep underwriting costs down. I thought I was fairly safe so close to the end of auction and as it was already past the original drawdown date.
Well more fool me. Not long after I did that it got extended another 5 days. If AC were trying to ensure on the large loans nobody bid early and we just relied on the aftermarket they couldn't be doing a better job.
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Post by batchoy on Feb 18, 2014 18:05:41 GMT
Well more fool me. Not long after I did that it got extended another 5 days. If AC were trying to ensure on the large loans nobody bid early and we just relied on the aftermarket they couldn't be doing a better job.
Now that the loan is fully underwritten, it should if anything speed the draw down as the money is there for the borrower to take so they can proceed with confidence in fulfilling all the requirements for the loan, also because it is fully underwritten AC can leave the auction running until the borrower is ready to draw down allowing lenders to bid out the underwriting.
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Post by chris on Feb 19, 2014 8:40:52 GMT
Well more fool me. Not long after I did that it got extended another 5 days. If AC were trying to ensure on the large loans nobody bid early and we just relied on the aftermarket they couldn't be doing a better job.
Auction close date and drawdown date are not the same thing, and where we extend the auction in this way it will not affect when these auctions are drawn down. Our only motivation for extending the auction is that there would otherwise be a dead period where lenders cannot bid on these loans whilst they are between auction close and drawdown where the underwriting cannot be bid out. New lenders are joining the platform all the time and we would rather offer them the opportunity to invest straight away than have a marketplace with fewer (or no) active loans.
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Feb 19, 2014 12:30:20 GMT
Well more fool me. Not long after I did that it got extended another 5 days. If AC were trying to ensure on the large loans nobody bid early and we just relied on the aftermarket they couldn't be doing a better job.
Auction close date and drawdown date are not the same thing, and where we extend the auction in this way it will not affect when these auctions are drawn down. Our only motivation for extending the auction is that there would otherwise be a dead period where lenders cannot bid on these loans whilst they are between auction close and drawdown where the underwriting cannot be bid out. New lenders are joining the platform all the time and we would rather offer them the opportunity to invest straight away than have a marketplace with fewer (or no) active loans. Thanks Chris that has set my mind at ease on this one and I understand the desire to drive out underwriting and allow and allow more participation.
However from the outside it is not always clear what is happening on a particular loan with dates moving around. How do I know we know if it is the situation you describe for this loan or one where the drawdown date has also moved. The text on this one still says drawdown in "7 to 10 days". "7 to 10 days" from when ? The date the text was edited ?, the end of auction ? I think the original credit report on this one also said 7 to 10 days and that has already passed. It all adds to confusion. It would be a lot more helpful if whoever maintains this could supply (and update as appropriate) a drawdown date range so it is clear.
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