freddy
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Post by freddy on Nov 7, 2015 1:51:29 GMT
I'm new to MT and am considering investment across the Supercar loans. Although investment would provide some risk spread across 4 current available loans that risk is increased due to the loans being held by the same borrower. Unfortunately I missed earlier postings that identified the borrower. Would anyone be able to provide me with a brief summary regarding this borrower (without naming). I.e. What is the mainly being borrowed for? I saw mention somewhere (can't find the post now) that the borrower was featured in a documentary. Any info on this, I'd be interested to view. There haven't been any posts here that identified the borrower and any that came uncomfortably close were edited to be less specific. You might try contacting MoneyThing support by email, perhaps asking for a copy of the borrower's newsletter that they sent out before. If they were to do that it would identify the TV program with sufficient specificity to find it in a search. However, if the borrower doesn't want to be identified MoneyThing may not be able to do that without breaching the confidentiality of the borrower. The borrower at the time of the TV program was doing work towards building a new showroom and while I don't know, I assume that that work as well as the benefit of being able to acquire more stock to fill it are the main reason(s) for the loans. For this type of business they need to actually buy cars for stock outright before they can get them into their showroom. Well, usually, they may sell some on behalf of other owners with no cash up front requirement. Last I knew they were writing about stock worth something like fifteen million Pounds and they have been in the business for a long time. With stock worth that sort of money and a constant need and desire on their part to acquire more to drive more sales, we can hope for quite a substantial set of future loans to help them to grow their business. Thanks James
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scraggs
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Post by scraggs on Nov 7, 2015 11:35:03 GMT
Afternoon scraggs. The borrower was comfortable being identified to registered investors at the start, however they requested that we remove their name after a few weeks which I was happy to do. Kind regards, Ed. I can't say that makes me feel easier with these particular loans. I know you have said the report is now with the borrower, but when will lenders or potential lenders eventually get to see it ?, it was first discussed on 22nd October. Can you confirm that DD has been done to confirm that these cars are owned outright by the borrowing company ? as the company also sell cars on customers behalf. I notice that the question of the purpose of these loans has been asked on this and another thread before, you have said expansion but could you elaborate on that as the amount is becoming quite significant, and how much are they looking to borrow in total ? On the loan agreement I notice that there doesn't appear to be a date of agreement signed, could you explain why ? I would have thought that needed to be on the document but stand to be corrected.
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Post by MoneyThing on Nov 9, 2015 9:12:39 GMT
Morning,
To follow up on some of the questions:
1) Will speak to the borrower today to see if we can get the report out to investors.
2) Loan Agreements are dated at the signature field. Loan start is however when the borrower is receipt of the funds.
3) I do not wish to elaborate much further on what the borrower intends to do with the funds without breaking any confidences, however they are currently expanding their business to cater for increasing demand. They are currently developing a 2nd site which is significantly bigger than their current site to be able to house more stock (they will retain their existing premises also).
4) Subject to investor appetite, we are hoping to grow these loans to a high 7 figure rolling facility. These loans will typically run for 6 to 10 weeks before the cars are sold and replaced with new loans as each expire to maintain a constant size facility once attained. The borrower maintains a healthy 8 figure stock at anyone time and bearing in mind that these cars average around 10 times the price of a 'normal' luxury car dealer stock (e.g. marques like Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, etc.), whilst the overall facility is sizeable (once attained), it will still be a relatively small exposure.
5) MoneyThing has oversight of all purchase invoices & receipts and also the manufacturers inspection reports (undertaken before the borrower purchases any vehicle).
Kind regards,
Ed
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scraggs
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Post by scraggs on Nov 9, 2015 16:42:34 GMT
Morning, To follow up on some of the questions: 1) Will speak to the borrower today to see if we can get the report out to investors. 2) Loan Agreements are dated at the signature field. Loan start is however when the borrower is receipt of the funds. 3) I do not wish to elaborate much further on what the borrower intends to do with the funds without breaking any confidences, however they are currently expanding their business to cater for increasing demand. They are currently developing a 2nd site which is significantly bigger than their current site to be able to house more stock (they will retain their existing premises also). 4) Subject to investor appetite, we are hoping to grow these loans to a high 7 figure rolling facility. These loans will typically run for 6 to 10 weeks before the cars are sold and replaced with new loans as each expire to maintain a constant size facility once attained. The borrower maintains a healthy 8 figure stock at anyone time and bearing in mind that these cars average around 10 times the price of a 'normal' luxury car dealer stock (e.g. marques like Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, etc.), whilst the overall facility is sizeable (once attained), it will still be a relatively small exposure. 5) MoneyThing has oversight of all purchase invoices & receipts and also the manufacturers inspection reports (undertaken before the borrower purchases any vehicle). Kind regards, Ed Hi Ed Thanks for clearing those matters up. Myself and I am sure others look forward to seeing the report.
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Post by MoneyThing on Nov 10, 2015 15:05:54 GMT
Morning, To follow up on some of the questions: 1) Will speak to the borrower today to see if we can get the report out to investors. 2) Loan Agreements are dated at the signature field. Loan start is however when the borrower is receipt of the funds. 3) I do not wish to elaborate much further on what the borrower intends to do with the funds without breaking any confidences, however they are currently expanding their business to cater for increasing demand. They are currently developing a 2nd site which is significantly bigger than their current site to be able to house more stock (they will retain their existing premises also). 4) Subject to investor appetite, we are hoping to grow these loans to a high 7 figure rolling facility. These loans will typically run for 6 to 10 weeks before the cars are sold and replaced with new loans as each expire to maintain a constant size facility once attained. The borrower maintains a healthy 8 figure stock at anyone time and bearing in mind that these cars average around 10 times the price of a 'normal' luxury car dealer stock (e.g. marques like Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, etc.), whilst the overall facility is sizeable (once attained), it will still be a relatively small exposure. 5) MoneyThing has oversight of all purchase invoices & receipts and also the manufacturers inspection reports (undertaken before the borrower purchases any vehicle). Kind regards, Ed Hi Ed Thanks for clearing those matters up. Myself and I am sure others look forward to seeing the report. Afternoon, The borrower wants to make a few adjustments/additions to the report and will return this to us by 12pm tomorrow (with which we will email out shortly after). I appreciate that many of you are waiting patiently for this report which I just hope that after all this time that it wont be an anti-climax for you! Kind regards, Ed
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Post by lynnanthony on Nov 11, 2015 11:54:24 GMT
<snip> 4) Subject to investor appetite, we are hoping to grow these loans to a high 7 figure rolling facility. These loans will typically run for 6 to 10 weeks before the cars are sold and replaced with new loans as each expire to maintain a constant size facility once attained. The borrower maintains a healthy 8 figure stock at anyone time and bearing in mind that these cars average around 10 times the price of a 'normal' luxury car dealer stock (e.g. marques like Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, etc.), whilst the overall facility is sizeable (once attained), it will still be a relatively small exposure. <snip> Ed I'm just playing around with some figures. "high seven figure rolling facility" - for the purposes of this post let's take that as £5m. Average individual loan size? Say £125k. So that's forty loans running at any given time, on average. If each loan lasts for 10 weeks, then you're going to be writing four new loans a week. Just to stand still. Or is my arithmetic faulty? Um .... how long before either you or the borrower gets fed up with all the paperwork? I seem to remember reading somewhere in all this that the borrower did not like conventional stocking finance. Why is that? Certainly one loan would be too big to fill but I wonder if it would be possible to come up with a series on the lines of Cash Shop Managed Portfolio loans - where loans keep going but the actual security changes over time?
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Post by MoneyThing on Nov 11, 2015 12:39:49 GMT
<snip> 4) Subject to investor appetite, we are hoping to grow these loans to a high 7 figure rolling facility. These loans will typically run for 6 to 10 weeks before the cars are sold and replaced with new loans as each expire to maintain a constant size facility once attained. The borrower maintains a healthy 8 figure stock at anyone time and bearing in mind that these cars average around 10 times the price of a 'normal' luxury car dealer stock (e.g. marques like Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover, etc.), whilst the overall facility is sizeable (once attained), it will still be a relatively small exposure. <snip> Ed I'm just playing around with some figures. "high seven figure rolling facility" - for the purposes of this post let's take that as £5m. Average individual loan size? Say £125k. So that's forty loans running at any given time, on average. If each loan lasts for 10 weeks, then you're going to be writing four new loans a week. Just to stand still. Or is my arithmetic faulty? Um .... how long before either you or the borrower gets fed up with all the paperwork? I seem to remember reading somewhere in all this that the borrower did not like conventional stocking finance. Why is that? Certainly one loan would be too big to fill but I wonder if it would be possible to come up with a series on the lines of Cash Shop Managed Portfolio loans - where loans keep going but the actual security changes over time? Morning lynnanthony, Whilst you are right that it would require a fair amount of paperwork, it gives the borrower a lot more flexibility than stocking finance as they can wind up (and down), their total borrowing more easily and quickly (since the loan terms are relatively short). In addition, as investors become more familiar and as the number of investors on the platform increase we will undertake larger loans against higher value cars so that the number of loans will decrease in relation to the overall borrowing. As an example, we could get to the stage where it is only 10 rolling loans (1 per week), to maintain an overall £5m facility. As you can see, we are working with the borrower to try and cater for the investor appetite. The first two loans we lent against 'medium' value appreciating supercars at 70% LTV, then the next two have been against 'lower' value depreciating supercars at 50%. The first cars have been a much slower uptake (currently 78% & 81% filled), however the latter two at 50% have been taken up quickly. Similar to the Cash Shop loans, we may well consider moving into a 'portfolio' type arrangement if it makes sense once we have got a few individual loans funded and then repaid to show the loan cycle. Although at this stage, this approach might not be suitable due to the relatively small number of loans that would make up a portfolio (unlike the high number of small loans contained within a Cash Shop portfolio). In summary, it will take a little trial and error to get the right model for investors but I am hopeful that we will get it to the stage that it will suit the majority of investors and thus give investors an alternative asset class to property on the platform. King regards, Ed
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Nov 11, 2015 13:50:55 GMT
Can we please agree not to use this phrase in connection with anything I'm lending on, in future? Thanks
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Post by MoneyThing on Nov 11, 2015 13:53:07 GMT
Can we please agree not to use this phrase in connection with anything I'm lending on, in future? Thanks Fair enough! Maybe something like 'iteratively adjusting the optimum investor proposition'?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Nov 11, 2015 14:05:56 GMT
Can we please agree not to use this phrase in connection with anything I'm lending on, in future? Thanks Fair enough! Maybe something like 'iteratively adjusting the optimum investor proposition'? Sorry but I cannot help it. Something like this tickles my brain. I went on the net and did some search. Trial and error: cut and try controlled experiment hit and miss hit OR miss tentative probe empirical testing speculation or possible Research and Development. Cheers. (No animals were hurt or killed during the above testing - only a few humans.)
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Nov 11, 2015 15:24:12 GMT
Just got the report via email.
Just reading now. Is it OK to ask any questions on here?
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huxs
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Post by huxs on Nov 11, 2015 16:02:10 GMT
Just got the report via email. Just reading now. Is it OK to ask any questions on here? That's one question already
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Post by MoneyThing on Nov 11, 2015 16:40:12 GMT
Just got the report via email. Just reading now. Is it OK to ask any questions on here? Afternoon jonbvn, Happy for you to ask on here, however depending on your questions you might want to email in directly so that I might be a little more candid than on a public forum if it is with respect to the borrower in particular. Kind regards, Ed
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Nov 11, 2015 18:30:38 GMT
Ed, I have a question of the section on Super Car Market Today. The report states that the classic car market is set to increase in value based on Hagerty. However, when I check Hagerty (see link), it states the following: "Although it still shows that the market is expanding, the Hagerty Market Rating experienced its biggest month-to-month drop since July 2013, and its fifth consecutive monthly decline."www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/Market-RatingThis to me indicates a market that has peaked and is declining, with the decline starting to accelerate. How would you read this info?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 11, 2015 18:43:34 GMT
Are you looking at the right index? The one quoted in the report graph is the Blue Chip index (reached via the sub-index link on the page you've posted) and does appear to be rising. Likewise the Ferrari sub-index
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