jimbob
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Post by jimbob on Oct 28, 2015 11:58:00 GMT
In a bit of a dilemma as to whether or not to go for Solar Panels on my current house. First up I can afford it, and am looking at purchasing... not doing the leased roof scheme as I will be looking to sell my property sometime in the next 20 years.
I'm a fairly low user of electricity and I estimate my payback time could well be around 9 years, that's with a system installed for £4750 which I should be able to keep interest free for at least 20 months, after that the funding cost will be 1.89%+base (My mortgage rate).
I'm estimating a 'true' payback time of around 8-9 years though it will depend on what happens to RPI/electricity prices (My annual 7 am -> midnight usage is ~ 1700 kwh/year)
After 9 years the system is earning pure profit, and I'd have thought may make the house more attractive to FTBs/BTLers as the house will be paying the new owners back. I guess I'd be looking to move in around 10 years time having built up a decent war chest by then... the mortgage I am on for my current property is very very soft though (Technically interest only till I'm 67 (I'm 34), though I am ahead on capital repayments). The house is worth around what I paid for it 95k and local estate agents have informed me the panels won't affect the value.
The 20 yr FIT drops 87% at the end of the year so I need to make a decision in say November.
Apols if the post is slightly muddled, but my thoughts on potential panels are too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 12:44:00 GMT
1) one thing when you come to sell the house, estate agents do not understand solar at all. Basically your FITS payments mean that you get your energy for free. Estate agents seldom manage to sell that message.
2) Yes your figures of 8 9 years pay back yes.
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Post by tybalt on Oct 28, 2015 12:52:26 GMT
Have pigeon netting fitted at the time the panels are installed. Should cost under £400 now versus £2,000 plus to have panels removed underside and roof cleaned and panels reinstalled.
Based on an install in November 2014 I am in line for FIT of about £800 pa plus about £350pa saving on electricity. I also had a device fitted which means I have only had to use the gas fired water heater for about 5 days since February.
www.apollosolarproducts.co.uk/
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Oct 28, 2015 13:00:31 GMT
I took out a 4KW system exactly 3years ago. The system cost was £5k and I'm generating FIT payments of c.£700per year, and reducing my energy bill by around £275 so in effect my electricity cost is nil (I'm quite a high user) and my payback is just over 5 years.
There are however so many variables affecting the overall position:
Capital cost
Quality/efficiency of panels and inverter (my panels are Hyundai-more efficient than Chinese panels)
Weather (don't be fooled by sales pitch-they produce very little in cloud)
Where you live (I live in Liverpool, not noted for tropical conditions)
Ability to maximise electricity useage when panels are optimised
Hope this helps
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 28, 2015 13:44:16 GMT
I took out a 4KW system exactly 3years ago. The system cost was £5k and I'm generating FIT payments of c.£700per year, and reducing my energy bill by around £275 so in effect my electricity cost is nil (I'm quite a high user) and my payback is just over 5 years. There are however so many variables affecting the overall position: Capital cost Quality/efficiency of panels and inverter (my panels are Hyundai-more efficient than Chinese panels) Weather (don't be fooled by sales pitch-they produce very little in cloud) Where you live (I live in Liverpool, not noted for tropical conditions) Ability to maximise electricity useage when panels are optimised Hope this helps I think the question is more to have solared or not to have solared, by which I mean the rates per unit were much better a few years ago (gloat, sorry). In France (and I thought across the world) there is an official sunshine hours figure for every location, which combined with roof orientation and pitch gives an official expected production rate which for us is accurate; I'd have though the same was true in UK (but obv check the roof figures are accurate). The fitters did damage our roof, and even though we knew personally the insurance inspector we never got them to pay up for repairing it. Our inverter did fail and had to be replaced - supposedly it's under manufacturer's 10 year warranty as are the panels so it's good to have a known brand name. If you were to cheat, it would actually be advantageous to use electrically powered cooling pumps on a hot day - a sort of perpetual motion! (because you pay 10p/unit to power the pumps but you get 50p per unit produced). My solution for the general good is to forget afterfitting on domestic rooves (roofs?), but just make it a planning condition for new build. A much better engineering solution as the roof will be properly designed, a much better commercial solution as the parts will be bought at trade price by the builder, instead of having to pay off door to door sales people earning huge commission and charging what they can get away with.
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jimbob
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Post by jimbob on Oct 28, 2015 14:00:21 GMT
Using past FiT figures for calculations isn't very helpful here >.>
I don't have a time machine so can't go back and stick solar up 3 years back !
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Oct 28, 2015 15:08:58 GMT
Using past FiT figures for calculations isn't very helpful here >.> I don't have a time machine so can't go back and stick solar up 3 years back ! No,but if you're prepared to undertake a bit of simple mathematics yourself,using the benefit of our experience of the FIT rates available then,it shouldn't be too difficult to calculate current returns.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 28, 2015 15:11:00 GMT
I think that the installation costs and FIT payments may have dropped at a similar rate.
I bought my 4k system about 4.25 years ago and it cost nearly £14k, however, the payback period is also about 8 years.
With regard to moving house there are companies that will buy your roof panels and so if I decide to move I may track one of them down.
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jimbob
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Post by jimbob on Oct 28, 2015 15:16:18 GMT
With regard to moving house there are companies that will buy your roof panels and so if I decide to move I may track one of them down. That's a potential gamechanger if the future owners/market doesn't value the panels highly enough.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 15:26:00 GMT
In terms of the inverter, I negotiated in an extended warranty of 20 years, we interviewd three companies, only EVO energy had a process for everything and actually showed they stuck to the process. I got a bunch of friends all to buy into the same story and got a slightly better deal. All have been satisfied.
Choose the company with care.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 28, 2015 15:35:41 GMT
In terms of the inverter, I negotiated in an extended warranty of 20 years, we interviewd three companies, only EVO energy had a process for everything and actually showed they stuck to the process. I got a bunch of friends all to buy into the same story and got a slightly better deal. All have been satisfied. Choose the company with care. I used EVO as well and I was happy with the entire process. However, I was not as smart as you on the inverter warranty, and unfortunately did not have a group of friends ready to install at the same time and so didn't get a discount either - well done to you!
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grahamg
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Post by grahamg on Oct 28, 2015 18:36:17 GMT
In terms of the inverter, I negotiated in an extended warranty of 20 years, we interviewd three companies, only EVO energy had a process for everything and actually showed they stuck to the process. I got a bunch of friends all to buy into the same story and got a slightly better deal. All have been satisfied. Choose the company with care. I used EVO as well and I was happy with the entire process. However, I was not as smart as you on the inverter warranty, and unfortunately did not have a group of friends ready to install at the same time and so didn't get a discount either - well done to you! Inverter lifetime is 10-15 years, electronics will wear out, like an old telly.
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Post by tybalt on Oct 28, 2015 21:07:28 GMT
" Inverter lifetime is 10-15 years, electronics will wear out, like an old telly "
Possibly you can explain why ? I am not aware of any reason why they should wear out. I am aware of reasons for not extending the warranties past ten years but that is a separate matter.
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Post by elljay on Oct 29, 2015 7:36:42 GMT
This site will give you an estimate of how much you will generate for your location and conditions (roof alignment etc). Definitely see previous installations of the installer if possible. The one I went with though he was a smaller outfit than some of the others really understood the fine details from experience. The unit that diverts spare power to the immersion heater is almost definitely worth it. The eco-system I bought into (Energeno / Optimmersion) also has plugs that will divert spare power to appliances (e.g. heaters), but it looks like they went bust recently. I guess other suppliers do similar but I haven't investigated.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2015 8:17:51 GMT
" Inverter lifetime is 10-15 years, electronics will wear out, like an old telly "
Possibly you can explain why ? I am not aware of any reason why they should wear out. I am aware of reasons for not extending the warranties past ten years but that is a separate matter. Generally electronic components suffer a "bathtub" failure rate, so they either go wrong very early in their life or they develop faults over the long term with low failure rates in the middle time period. I was a GM of an electronic unit building company and we collected data on reliability across a wide spectrum of products. (would you believe we upped our customer perceived reliability by just powering our units for 4 hours after build so they failed on site rather than with the customer?) I also worked in more electrical (rather than electronic) assembly and the failure rates and mechanisms are very different and lives of 20 to 40 years are not unreasonable. Hence, if you want high reliability in say a washing machine, get as little electronics in the thing as possible. The white goods industry produce evidence that the life of units is falling and they argue that is because of shorter life designs by "clever" manufacturers, it isn't, it is due to the increase in the failure rate of electronics due to increasing electronic complexity (basic statistics). 10 / 15 years is a good life for a 24/7 electronic machine
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